"Hannover" Hargis tells some more lies

This month's first blog is dedicated to my old friend Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, well known on the scene as the cowardly and mendacious lead-foot censor who moderates the "Revisionist" cesspit known as the "CODOH Revisionist Forum". Hargis now also writes for a pamphlet called "Smith’s Report", where he has a column in which he presents past exchanges on the CODOH forum.

Some CODOH "Revisionists" made a fuss ...

... about one of the photo collections available on this blog site.

As usual when CODOH "Revisionists" mouth off about me or this blog site, their antics are commented on the RODOH thread A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis .... See my posts 13089, 13090, 13091, 13092, 13093 and 13094.

Free exchange of ideas on CODOH includes ...

... the psychopath Carmelo Lisciotto ("Blogbuster") peddling his monologues under various aliases on fake blogs to a grateful audience of gullible "truth seekers", including my old friend "Drew J".

Meanwhile, on the "CODOH Revisionist Forum" ...

... sorry figures are again shooting off their mouths.

Updates on More Smear & Bitching

Update 1: See my RODOH posts 12163, 12164 and 12165

Update 2: Mr. Lisciotto's characteristic reaction [screenshot].

Question of the day: could it be that renowned Holocaust researcher Chris Webb doesn't know that his associate is barking mad? (That will cause said associate to put together another smear blog and/or a litany of fake comments on the current one, stay tuned.)

Update 3: See my RODOH posts 12189, 12190 and 12191.

Smear-blog-toting coward Carmelo Lisciotto is so predictable ...

More smear & bitching on CODOH (Part 1)

More smear & bitching on CODOH (Part 2)

More smear & bitching on CODOH (Part 1)

Kevin Barrett's invitation to a radio debate with Mr. "Dalton" launched some bitching fish-wives on the CODOH Cesspit into an instructive festival of mendacious insinuations, paranoid and somewhat-less-than dishonest suspicions and downright lies about my humble person. In the following I shall have a look at these lowly characters' deplorable utterances, one by one.

Carmelo Does CODOH!

Very fittingly, Carmelo Lisciotto (of holocaustresearchproject.org) descended into the Cesspit to promote his fake blogs there.

Clickie here, here or here. [Note: links expired, see screenshots below]

Dr. Terry immediately sets him straight:

Hi Carmelo,

I'm surprised you are still crusading about something that happened in 2006, and on a revisionist site to boot, or did you switch sides? You used to put up fake blogs claiming that Sergey Romanov was a Holocaust denier, yet here you are on CODOH talking about 'hoaxers' running the ARC site.

Incidentally, I was merely a collateral casualty of a feud between other people. I belonged to the ARC group for a few months, contributed nothing, and lost nothing much when I was histrionically booted out for having done absolutely nothing. Can't say I particularly care, but evidently the internet is such a serious business for you that you do.

And poor Cesspit Clown Carto's Cutlass Supreme is aloof and out of touch, as usual:

I have to say that someone starting death-camps.org to imitate and confuse with deathcamps.org seems dishonest to me.

That would be dishonest indeed, if not for the fact that death-camps.org was set up by ARC members who disagreed with Chris Webb's and Carmelo Lisciotto's policy of promoting fake documents on deathcamps.org (as described here). The intent was to preserve the authentic information, cleared from "Andy Schmidt's" forgeries.

Carmelo Lisciotto should stay at CODOH. Holocaust deniers are a fitting company for him.

PS: Carmelo's spam was deleted, as had been expected. Here's a screenshot of just one of his spam messages, in which Lisciotto tries to suck up to Holocaust deniers and to attack Dr. Nicholas Terry:

  

Here is another, in which Carmelo promotes his fake blogs:

Lisciotto and Webb are at it again

[The fake blogs have been finally removed due to my complaint to Google/Blogger. I tried in 2006 but Blogger.com was unresponsive back then. I have saved the content of these fake blogs in PDF files (except for the comments).]

Carmelo Lisciotto of holocaustresearchproject.org has posted this message under a nickname impersonating me on a fake blog: http://promoteholocaustdenial.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-us-to-bring-down.html

Carmelo has been waging a smear campaign against this blog since 2006, after his friend Chris Webb had been caught supplying forgeries for deathcamps.org and Carmelo himself had been exposed as a thug and bigot.

Carmelo created several fake blogs back then with libelous messages. He is both a webmaster and one of the authors at holocaustresearchproject.org, from which fact one can judge the worthiness of this "project" run by such complete sociopaths.

Updates are below the cut.

Yet another H.E.A.R.T. attack (yawn)

[Update: Lisciotto and Webb have also created several fake impersonating blogs, click here to learn more.]

Chris Webb has a ridiculous piece up on his site, "Holocaust Remembrance. A time to memorialize, debate, debunk or debauch?" ( http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/essays&editorials/memorial-debunk-debate-debauged.html ) by a certain "Dr. Martin Friedhaus". Google search has nothing on this alleged "Dr.". Whether he is real, or a creation of Chris Webb or his flunkies, the article is a hoot. It is painfully obvious that it is aimed at us.

Some quotes:

Webb/Lisciotto update

Those of you who have followed the ARC/deathcamps.org/death-camps.org tragicomic saga, may find the following letters by Carmelo Lisciotto and Chris Webb sent to German 1&1, to be of some comic relief. Some people (like the owners of the Axis History Forum) may even consider taking legal action, because this pair of lying thugs libels them - and many other people.

You will also note that Webb has had a book "published" with "Andy Schmidt" in 2005. Two facts are significant here: 1) Andy Schmidt is the very forgerer exposed by me, whose forgeries Chris Webb tried to peddle to the ARC group, and which caused the demise of ARC; 2) until Webb wrote this letter, nobody in ARC knew anything about his books (which, he claims, are based on the deathcamps.org site!), this fact being yet another clear testimony about the level of his honesty and integrity.

Thankfully, German 1&1 didn't give much weight to their laughable "evidence".

Read more!

"Carmelo A. Lisciotto" wrote:

[1&1 official name omitted],

Our website is registered with the US office of copyright, the confirmation# is
U.S. Copyright Office Confirmation (ORD8368).
http://www.death-camps.org/links/ shows links to Axis History Forum ( a
neo-nazi website)
http://www.death-camps.org/arc/supporters.html <-- is a fraudulent support
page where people who donated to www.deathcamps.org ARC are listed as
donors to this counterfeit website with neo-nazi links.
In addition we've sent by email, fax and postal letters, over 10 pieces of
evidence that validate our authorship and ownership, we've asked what
supporting evidence was provided by the counterfeit website, we were given
no response by 1and1.

We've provided enough evidence to allow the counterfeit website to be
removed. Should the owner of the bogus site Stephan Their wish to contest
our copyright the onus is on him to pursue that in a court of law, 1and1
would be acting in accordance with acceptable use policy by removing this
fraudulent site.

Regrettably, 1and1, and it's German affiliates have handled this matter
poorly, and in direct contradiction to your own posted Terms of Service.

This matter is far from settled, we've sent DMCA notifications to 1and1, we
were ignored, this matter is being referred to our legal counsel for
arbitration in US courts, and EU courts. In addtion we have consulted with
our contacts at the BBC, USHMM, CNN and are making this story public.

By no means will ARC www.deathcamps.org consider this matter settled while a
counterfeit version of our website with links to neo-nazi groups and
fraudulent financial solicitations appears on your servers.

We are fully prepared to take this matter to great lengths until this matter
is brought to an acceptable resolution.

Thus far, 1and1 has by all measures appeared to be sympathetic to this
counterfeit website with nothing but anecdotal statements offered up by the
perpetrators.

We can not allow our supporters and contributors to be so rudely
disrepected.

Sincerley,

Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto
ARC www.deathcamps.org

Von: Chris Webb
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2007 16:08
Betreff: Re: C74876943 Re: 1and1 Germany appearing to be sympathetic to Neo-Nazi and Holocaust revisionists, and website counterfeiters...

Dear [1&1 official name omitted],

Thank you very much for your email.

We thought that we had sent you a plethora of proof, whilst the other party, in the shape of Mr. Their provided you with nothing, as confirmed by your own people.

I attach the catalogue record from the Wiener Library in London, of a book i produced from the ARC website, www.deathcamps.org and material culled from my own privatearchive collected over the past 35 years.

If you type in the online search on the Wiener Library online catalogue, you will see the book i produced on Treblinka, and you will note the link to deathcamps.org

I hope that this provides the sort of proof you are looking for.

We understand there is a natural tendency to support neighbours, but unless Mr. Thier can provide similiar evidence, it would seem to me, that the claims are justified, and you do sympathise with neo-nazis and holocuast revisionists, in the face of a mountain of counter evidence.

Once again we draw your attention to the dates, the original site established in 2002 with 1and 1 and the counterfeit site being established in 2006, this book was produced in 2005.

We rest our case, and we hope you will do the right thing, as outlined in Mr Lisciotto's earlier email.

We are very disappointed in 1and1de stance, but not surprised.

Regards,

Chris Webb

The Webb-Lisciotto farce goes on: now they try to kill death-camps.org

Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto (of H.E.A.R.T. fame - or should I say infamy?) have reached a new low.

Recently Webb has called 1&1, the German Internet provider on whose server death-camps.org is hosted, and claimed to hold the copyright to all deathcamps.org materials, which were hosted at death-camps.org. Astonishingly, 1&1 blocked the site based just on Webb's empty claims.

And here's the threat sent by Webb to Stephan Thier (sic), the owner of death-camps.org domain:



(Note: through all these years Webb, a native Englishman and former ARC secretary, hasn't learned proper spelling and grammar.)

Webb's claim to copyright ownership is ridiculous. All the contents of the main site are indeed under ARC copyright, but there is no law which permits anyone, even ( :-) ) a secretary in the group just to claim to be a copyright owner - simply on the strength of the fact that this person also owns the domain name of the site.

In fact, while Webb himself has contributed some information to the site, most of the work has been done by other people, especially the webmaster (who is now behind death-camps.org). I have created a couple of ARC pages myself, and heavily contributed to several others, and I didn't give Webb any right to claim to be their owner.

It should be mentioned that while several unprincipled individuals from the former ARC group have chosen to support Webb, the majority of the ARC group (including two of the three founders) haven't.

What's worse is that deathcamps.org currently hosts a bunch of "independent websites". There was an understanding in the group that these contributions did not fall under an "umbrella" ARC copyright, but were fully independent. None of these sites' owners currently supports Webb (except Webb himself). In fact, John Ulrich Poulsen has tried for months - in vain - to have his copyrighted work removed from the site. (The updated version of his page is on the currently blocked death-camps.org).

Therefore it is Webb who is in violation of copyright law. He is a thief, pure and simple.

Carmelo, on the other hand, has been busy with mud-slinging campaign.

Check out the fake blog "http://holocaustcontroversy.blogspot.com". Cowardly blog-owner has removed all the postings, but some info still remains there. Moreover, some information on what was contained in this porn-filled smear-blog can be found at http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/holocaust-controversy.html [screenshot], and some remains will be available at Google for some time.

Of course, there will be denials of ARC connection. But look at these Wikipedia edits: 1, 2. Who is the vandal behind the edits? Check out his history of contributions: 1, 2. Rather clear, isn't it?

How sad it is that among all the Holocaust denial going on in the world, the credible Holocaust history sites are being ruined by such scum.

In case you're inclined to write to these gentlemen, you can find their addresses and e-mails through WHOIS service (just type in deathcamps.org). The 1&1 contact page is here.

Just in case you were wondering...

...what scholarly pursuits holocaustresearchproject.org was up to, click here (or see this screenshot in case they have already changed it).

That, and the "re-establishment" of the old ARC site. The true site is, of course, available only here.

It will suffice to say that H.E.A.R.T.'s "ARC" still contains the fake materials (click here for more details).

This is exactly what I've been writing about all this time. They don't care about authenticity at all.

Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto are not smart people, that much should be obvious by now.

H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods

Recently we've been getting some of the most pornographic, vile, vulgar and libelous messages we've ever seen, both on the blog and by e-mail.

Ironically, these messages were not from our Nazi opponents, who sometimes stoop to this level, but not that often.

They were left by defenders of so-called "H.E.A.R.T." ("Holocaust Education & Archive Research Team", http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org), and all this followed my exposure of H.E.A.R.T. founder Chris Webb's key role in demise of deathcamps.org (and intrinsic lack of credibility of his new venture).

Below I will quote some of these messages by a H.E.A.R.T. representative and a H.E.A.R.T. defender (who may be one and the same person).

But if you wish to avoid feeling dirty, better skip this posting. Consider yourself warned.

Read more!

According to whois, holocaustresearchproject.org domain is registered by a certain Carmelo Lisciotto. Lisciotto is a former ARC member, who, according to my conversations with one "neutral" (i.e., not taking sides) ARC member, was forced to leave the group because of an internal conflict.

When ARC broke up, Chris Webb apparently immediately contacted Lisciotto to use him as a webmaster for his new H.E.A.R.T. group.

Some time before my posting, I contacted Lisciotto, and some reciprocal taunting ensued, which later grew into a slightly more constructive discussion, but only for a very short time. When Lisciotto issued a veiled threat that he, knowing some people at Google, can "have sites added or removed almost at will" (in the search engine database), of course, I promised to publish his e-mail if anything happens, after which an accusation that "[m]aking threats is childish" followed (apparently, Lisciotto didn't see any irony here). The next (unprovoked) message was:

dude you must be gay....

Talk about childish behavior.

After the posting was made, and the link was sent to several relevant people (including some notable Holocaust scholars), Lisciotto basically went nuts and posted the following:

Hey Idiot,
Does posting peoples names on blogs like a silly little faggot from where ever the fuck you are from make you happy?
I think your daddy must have stuck his finger up your ass way too many times when you were a child.

If you wish to knock on another website fine, when you start publishing peoples names and copies of emails that were never meant for public circulation you've crossed the line.

You, Nick terry and the other blogging faggots need to cut the shit and get on with your lives.

If you meet me in person you will be doing a lot of apologizing that I can assure you.
-Carmelo

After realizing that he had sent his bigoted rant accidentally to a large group of people, including serious mainstream scholars, he was quick to issue an "apology", though the deed was done and couldn't be reverted.

That wasn't enough for Lisciotto, who, posting anonymously as "Holoscholar" has left the following comment under the post in question:

Hey Sergey, do you ever spend time with a cock up your ass?

He quickly deleted it, but, of course, all comments also arrive to us by e-mail, so it was rather pointless.

Lisciotto's obsession with "gays", "faggots" and "cocks up asses" may be explained rather easily (Usenet remembers everything...), and it shows him to be a hypocrite (especially considering his political conservatism and alleged Christianity).

Since "Holoscholar's" blog is set up as an official H.E.A.R.T. outlet, it is fair to say that he (Lisciotto) is a H.E.A.R.T. representative.

Now you can judge H.E.A.R.T.'s credibility also by the words of its representative.

Apparently realizing that he is harming his cause more than helping it, "Holoscholar" has disappeared from the thread in question. Instead, a certain "Robert James Jones JR." appeared (account created in October, obviously specifically to troll at this blog). Judging by the style, and by the fact that nobody but Lisciotto would have a greater motive to troll here, I suspect just who that "Robert James Jones JR." is. But judge for yourself.

RJJR began spamming the thread with libelous accusations, which really need no comment. Here are some of them:

mr sergee I've recieved more reports of other Holocaust Survivors you have abused and degraded. Is this a habit with you?

Sergey Romanov the abuser of innocent Holocaust victims.

Truly a disgusting man you are. Does Nick Terry also abuse holocaust victims and survivors?

Quite a disgusting group and digusting blog this http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/ is....

Again you have made a post about having a "cock in your ass" that is how many post that YOU HAVE MADE that have that line reprinted in it.
Is that you subtle way of being an exhibitionist?

Mr sergeee Mr sergee....

It is so interesting to watch you 3 idiots attempt to bait me into a debate.

The original post shows Sergee and Nic terri getting "kicked out" of the ARC group.

(It shows nothing of the sort, BTW.)

VERIFIED DENIER and ABUSER of HOLOCAUST SURVIORS namely Sergey Romanov

They clearly don't want you or to be associated with your HOLOCUST DENIAL BLOG http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

How many more Jews and Holocaust survivors will you attack and abuse Mr. Sergey Romanov?
How much more suffering will you and Nick Terry of http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/ cause to the victims of the holocaust with your revisionist lies???
The three of you should combine your IQ's and come up as a single idiot and stead of three. It would be more economical, and the cock would then be in all your asses :)

It is my understanding that this Neo Nazi Sergey Romanov even went so far as to publicly attack a Holocaust Survivor and belittle and degrade the man. All of this for what end?
What is the purpose of all of this Facist style hatred?

http://Holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com reads like a chapter of DER STURMER.

Is sergee mr Streicher now?

Such a den of iniquity as this shameful lying blog is a scar of all those who choose to respect the victims of the Holocaust.

It should be fairly obvious as to the reason that Nick Terry Sergey Romanov were kicked out of the a r c webgroup, they were exposed for being deniers, and holding memberships in revisionist organizations against the charter of the arc board. Thus they were shown the door. That then spurred this attacking revisionist block article that here on this revisionist blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

Certainly I have never come across such a vipers nest of holocaust denial and revision as this blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

I feel very sorry for you mr terri and mr sergee that you would stoop to such low levels and attack a holocaust treasure for your twisted goals.

May I ask you one question? Do you make some monies from this type of activities? Why do you put so much effort into destruction? Did not the Nazi's do enough of that on their own? Or are you part of that mindset only hiding it so well to trick people?

But the venom you unleash is self evident and one doesn't need a bloodhound to smell the that there is most definitely something fishy about your group of people mr sergee and mr terri.

Hiding behind the guise of fighting holocaust denial when your true intentions is rewrite truth is clearly shown

Etc., etc., etc.

Now, there are two options. Either this is the same H.E.A.R.T. representative - and then what this tells us about this group? Or this is an "average" H.E.A.R.T. defender, which also doesn't reflect well on the credibility of the above group.

---

Later developments: H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods (cont.).

On the demise of deathcamps.org: how fakes and arrogance killed a great undertaking

The old ARC material is now online at http://death-camps.org. But what happened to the old site? I will tell the story below, and by the end of this posting hopefully you will also understand why I chose to tell it, revealing some rather embarrassing inside information.

(All images are clickable.)

Read more!

I became an associate of ARC/deathcamps.org in late 2005. Some time later I became a full member. Much later Dr. Nick Terry joined the team with my help, and, almost near the end of the whole thing, Roberto Muehlenkamp joined independently. Both Roberto and Nick can corroborate the crucial parts of this posting.

Membership in ARC was neat, but rather uneventful - in-group discussions concerned mostly secondary details on the existing pages. Sometimes new material was supplied and discussed. I can't say I had a "unique" perspective on certain historical interpretations, but there were rare moments during which I defended interpretations which differed from those accepted by "senior" members.

It all lasted until Chris Webb, a British "secretary" of ARC (and also its "treasurer" and proprietor of deathcamps.org domain) sent out the message below (Sep 19, 2006 7:43 PM; emphasis author's):

[...]

Good Day.

i dont do this lightly, Andy has sent me Lambert's statement re the building of the Treblinka gas chambers - new.

Unfortunately, its so small its really difficult to read, but what a find.

Fuchs installed shower-heads in the ceiling

10 chambers

2 Diesel engines obtained by Hackenholt

Bricks obtained from former glass factory at Malkinia

2 horse style barracks for sorting

i am trying to get it bigger - please bear with me.

This is a very good statement, describes too building of 6 watchtowers and a guardhouse.

Like Schluch - totally new to me.

best

Chris

This immediately raised an alarm for me. Lambert talking about diesels for the gas chambers? Lambert constructed these chambers, so if he said so, the engines were diesels. Which, of course, while not destroying anything ("the Holohoax story", as deniers would say) would certainly create some complications. That was not a reason for me to dismiss this alleged statement, but that certainly was a reason to examine it more closely. My suspicions were confirmed by other team members. Mike, a German gentleman who was a deathcamps.org webmaster, wrote (Sep 19, 2006 9:00 PM):

Chris,

you know my opinion re "Andy". In every case you should ask him for the exact source (file number etc) of his contributions. Nothing against you but just something to avoid a possibly big blamage one day.

Mike

To which Chris replied (Sep 19, 2006 9:14 PM):

Mike,

i understand, and you are right.

Its from Dusseldorf trial.

trust me, i am no fool.

He has sent me lots of trial papers, including a 40 page Stangl trial document.

but you are right to be cautious, and i appreciate always you looking after us.

best

chris

"trust me, i am no fool". And still no exact source. The next message from Mike was even more interesting (Sep 19, 2006 9:33 PM):

Chris,

I never said you are a fool but because Andy has sent us at least one faked pic, I intend to be a bit more cautious than usual.

And he never replied on my emails btw.

I don't understand why he keeps somewhere in the background although he is obviously interested in our matters.

I haven't found that document when I visited the Duesseldorf archive but I couldn't see and copy all of their files.

Mike

A faked picture? What the heck was going on? A proven fake, and this "Andy" still wasn't given a boot? More inane apologetics from Chris followed (Sep 19, 2006 10:01 PM):

Mike,

I do understand and accept your caution.

You must try and trust my judgement on the material supplied.

He actually works very hard for us, but wants to remain in the shadows, for whatever reason.

We must accept that, and respect his wishes, he only wants to deal with me, and i am comfortable with that, but he has worked with [name omitted].

If i have any doubts, then i dont share it, its as easy as that. He mostly sends me trial stuff now, so you can see its genuine.

Gentlemen -Please dont bombard me emails over this subject, I have said all i am going to say.

Alles Klahr
[...]
Chris Webb

ARC Secretary

Blah. So, I asked Mike for more info on this "Andy". I received it and remembered that some time earlier I was asked by Mike for my opinion on some pictures and documents of an Aktion Reinhard(t) man Feix, sent by this "Andy" ("Andy Schmidt"). To Mike and me they seemed fishy, though I didn't firmly dismiss them as forgeries back then.

Here they are:





According to the consensus of the people who have seen them (e.g. at Axis History Forum), at least the photos are fishy.

The second picture sent to me by Mike was a real smoking gun. It was purported by "Andy" to be a photo of the Treblinka "Tube". Compare this picture:

with this screenshot from the movie Escape from Sobibor:

But there's more. I remembered that the judgement in Duesseldorf Treblinka trial said:

Darüber welche Masse wirklich zutreffen, hat die Beweisaufnahme ebensowenig eine eindeutige Klärung ergeben wie über die wirkliche Anzahl der neuen Kammern, die von den Angeklagten übereinstimmend und von Anfang an mit 6, von den jüdischen Zeugen jedoch durchweg mit 10 angegeben werden.

I.e., Jewish witnesses testified about 10 chambers, defendants - about 6. And yet, this Lambert statement allegedly said that there were 10 chambers. Moreover, there was another statement, provided by "Andy", which had already been put online (and used by me in an update to my diesel article):

The defendant Münzberger – his personal statement about the upper camp

My main job in the upper camp was to stand at the entrance to the new gas chamber building with a long bull whip, driving the Jews inside as they came through the tube. The building was big, I guess about 16 x 40 metres. In the front section were the chambers and covering the entire width of the back section was the engine room. In the corridor the Jews were driven into the chambers by some Ukrainians. There were five chambers on either side. Each measured about 50 square metres and held about 300 Jews. The first chambers to be filled were chambers one and two behind the curtain. The doors to the first two chambers were shut and the next group of Jews were forced into chambers three and four. When all the chambers were filled with about 3,000 Jews, the heavy wooden doors were fastened with iron bolts. Now I went through the corridor, opened the door to the engine room, and gave a sign to Schmidt or Zänker to start both diesel engines. The Russian T34 tank engines were started by three Ukrainians and a Jew. They needed a lot of diesel. Schmidt brought the diesel from the garage in the lower camp in cans of 20 litres. The operation lasted twenty minutes, and from time to time I looked through the glass windows into the chambers. Then the Ukrainians opened the doors in the corridors and I went to the west side of the building. There I watched the emptying and cleaning of the chambers. At the same time the chambers were ventilated. All of that lasted about forty minutes. Then the big outer doors were closed and secured with wooden beams. Now Rum and his corpse team took over the transportation of bodies to the pits or burning grills, and I went back to the entrance. There Sepp brought the next group of Jews. In the peak time between August and November 1942, sometimes there were eight operations without a break. The following Germans served with me in the upper camp: Heinrich Matthes – chef, Karl Pötzinger – deputy chef, Franz Rum and Willy Großmann – corpse transport, Herbert Floss and Otto Horn – corpse burning, Karl Eiselt and Johannes Eisold – excavator drivers, Karl Ludwig and Alfred Forker – dentists, Erwin Keina and Kurt Arndt – pits, Fritz Schmidt and Hans Zänker – gas chambers, Alfred Löffler and Erwin Lambert – building team, Lothar Boelitz and Josef Hirtreiter – tube and guard, Erich Fuchs and Lorenz Hackenholt – occasional installation work.

And again 10 chambers are mentioned. How could it be, if the judgement said that Nazis testified about 6 gas chambers?

There was one difficulty, though - one of the ARC members, a brilliant Aktion Reinhard(t) researcher with access to lots of ZStL materials provided the following quote from Muenzberger's pre-trial statement (April 1st, 1960; ZStL AR-Z 230/59, Bd. 5, p. 850ff):

At that time the gas chambers only had a small entrance. When I came to Treblinka there were only 3 chambers. The big chambers were being build. Later perhaps there were 8 chambers.

Nevertheless, this statement still contradicted "Andy's" version and Muenzberger wasn't even sure about the exact number of chambers. I also remembered then that many months ago another statement was supplied by Webb, and by all indications it came from the same source. It was an alleged statement of Otto Rum, excerpts from which I also mentioned when writing about the diesel issue:



10 chambers again! The Treblinka trial verdict wasn't very accurate when it claimed that all Nazis claimed 6 gas chambers, so the judges goofed a little bit. But what is the probability that they would write what they did if the three defendants actually explicitly claimed that there were 10 gas chambers? Given that there was no reason for the judges to create a contradiction, and especially considering that the alleged statements have no provenance whatsoever (Webb and his "Andy" never specified the exact sources), the chances are nil and the statements are forgeries.

(I should note here that in the interview with Claude Lanzmann, Franz Suchomel also tentatively claimed that there were 8 gas chambers, but as I have no information about his statements to this effect during the investigation and trial, this information is neither here nor there at this moment.)

Later, when the whole affair basically ended, I also analyzed the alleged statement by Karl Alfred Schluch, supplied by "Andy":



It didn't pass the test either. In Arad's Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka on pp. 70-71 we have the following description by Schluch:

Then Hackenholt switched on the engine which supplied the gas.

Thus 1 engine, not 2. Also Arad says that Schluch served in Belzec since February or March. "Andy's" statement says June. While a numerical contradiction by itself might not be that important, "Andy's" Schluch actually bases his lack of knowledge of the old gas chambers on his month of arrival. Of course, Schluch would be aware of the old gas chambers if he arrived in February or March.

Finally, I have already quoted Carlo Mattogno's citation of Schluch's testimony in my diesel posting:

For the gassings an engine was started up. I cannot give a more detailed description of the engine, because I never saw it. I am not a specialist, but I would say that, judging from the sound, it was a medium-size diesel engine.

Mattogno is a denier, but I haven't seen him quoting any forgeries, and he always gives archival references (in this case - ZStL). So, according to this statement, Schluch also talks about "the engine" and he claims ignorance about the type of the engine! Compare with "Andy's" statement. Mattogno also claims, based on Schluch interrogation (again, giving the exact reference), that Schluch served in Belzec since April 1942 - one more hit against "Andy's" statement. So, this is just another forgery.

After being confronted with some of the above evidence, how did the group react? Well, here's where the "fun" begins. It turned that Mel, one of the "senior" members, was uneasy about "Andy's" material (Sep 23, 2006 9:19 PM):

Mike,

Today and tomorrow are Rosh Hashanah, Jewish New Year, so I shouldn't even be writing this, but for the record, you know my views on Andy and his information. Once bitten, twice shy, as we say.

[...]

In a personal e-mail he was more explicit (Sep 24, 2006 7:30 PM). I'm not shy about quoting this personal message because of what transpired later (see below):

Sergey,

The Treblinka tube was an obvious fake, but there has been other dubious material emanating from this source. I wrote to Mike in January 2005: "As I've already written, Chris believes Andy because he wants everything to be genuine. I am more sceptical - in fact, as I've said on numerous occasions, I don't accept anything as being legitimate without verification from another source. It ain't true just because Chris says it is. We have a reputation to maintain."

I know that Mike shares my opinion. Chris seems to want to keep the identity of this "Andy" to himself for reasons unknown.
[...]

There were some stronger voices of support for me. But the cutest messages arrived from Webb, of course. Like this (Sep 30, 2006 12:47 AM):

Sergey,

I have already answered this.

There is no suspicious material on our site from Andy
or anyone else, to my knowledge.

If anyone can prove there is, we will remove it.

Anything from Andy is from museums, checked by me.

So its really nothing for you or anyone else to worry
about.

End of debate, case closed, as far as i am concerned.

Over and out,

Chris

[...]

Chris Webb

ARC Secretary

Or this (Sep 30, 2006 1:10 AM):

Sergey,

All points have been answered, and i get bored with
people dragging things up, for no good reason.

I am a founder member, fully paid up, and i have no
desire to put anything on the site that damages us.

Mike has the final say on what is uploaded, what more
is there to add.

Chris

Actually, Webb answered no points, except posting this (Sep 30, 2006 3:12 PM):

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all your emails, very interesting, good to
see people expressing their views.

ARC operates with a Board to set policy, and decide on
this kind of thing calmy and rationally.

The Board consists of Mike, Mel and myself.

If i understand group members right they want all of
Andy's stuff removed from the website?

Only email me, if that is incorrect. Thank you.

We can discuss that quite easily, without jumping on
some kind of lynching wagon.

i think we should set our sights a bit higher than
that imo.

Mike, Mel we need to agree a date.

Regards,

Chris Webb

ps. Mike can you give the Board an updateon who has
paid to be a member please.

[...]

After another member posed some good questions about the above message, Webb replied (Oct 1, 2006 10:53 AM):

[...]

Thanks for your kind wishes.

Its at Board level now, so we are spared any further
group discussion.

Hopefully, the Board meeting will take in the next few
days.

[...]

Okaaay, so "the Board" was to consider the forgeries issue. Fine. Now, imagine my, Nick's and Roberto's surprise when we found the following in our mailboxes (Oct 4, 2006 12:20 AM):

ARC - IMPORTANT BOARD ANNOUNCEMENT

To All Members of ARC,

I wish to inform you of some important decisions.

The Board have agreed a number of proposals tonight.
With immediate effect I will assume the policy making decisions of ARC within the Board Structure, of Mel, Mike and myself, taking over from Mike who felt he was unable to continue in this role.

i personally want to thank Mike for doing this, when he wasnt really confortable with it.
He really tried his best, and no-one can ask more.

Secondly, and this may surprise some of you the Board has decided to sever all contacts with members known and unknown of the Axis History Forum with immediate effect.

John will you please draw up a new list excluding

Sergey Romanov

Nick Terry

Roberto Muhlenkamp

If other current ARC members belong to this organisation, please feel free to resign immediately, if you belong to AHF, membership to ARC is barred, for life..

Obviously those that have contributed something, we thank you, and wish you well .

This decision will not be reversed, and if anyone has forwarded money to Mike [surname omitted], this may be returned if we know your address.

Regards,

Chris Webb
ARC

This is too demented to seriously comment upon. But for starters, what does AHF (a respectable forum, by the way) have to do with anything? Nothing. And where is anything about the forgeries?

What followed was not expected by Webb - Mike, the webmaster, has taken down the site and published some messages from the "Board discussion". It seems that Webb simply tried to take over the power, a putsch, if you wish - at least according to Mike's description. Interestingly, even after Mike has declared Webb a former member, Webb tried to use his name (Oct 4, 2006 11:07 AM):

Gentlemen,

[name omitted] - sorry to inform you this is not the case this time.

ARC is run by a Board, the Board agreed by a majority vote to take these actions.

No decisions are taken lightly, but i can assure you it was democratic.

There can be no discussion about it., the long term interests of ARC are at stake, and the Board have taken its decision based on those criteria.

If members do not think they can live and work within this enviornment then of course they are free to leave. .

That choice is theirs , without any hard feelings whatsover.

Regards,

Chris Webb Mel [surname omitted] Mike [surname omitted] - ARC Board Members

ARC

(To which Mike could only reply that "I never got an email in which my name was used as signature for something which I never would have said! That's simply incredible.")

Shreds of "the Board" discussions lead to some interesting insights. Mel wrote (I quote from a quote from another message):

> Mike, Chris,
>
> It will take me a little while to fully digest
> Chris' proposals, but in the interim I would say
> this:
>
> 1) I am not happy with the direction ARC has been
> taking. I agree with Chris that recruiting Sergey,
> Nick, and Roberto was a mistake, and I accept my
> share of the blame for doing so. I do not accuse any
> of them of being deniers - they simply have a
> different agenda from that of ARC (or what I believe
> ARC's should be.) They are intent on "proving"
> facts, particularly to deniers - we are (or should
> be) dedicated to reporting them. Why create a blog
> entitled "Holocaust Controversies"? What is there
> that is controversial, except the absurdities raised
> by deniers?
>
> I know nothing about Sergey, except that he is
> certainly not Russian, although he is clearly a
> fluent Russian speaker. I know even less of Nick and
> Roberto. I think P L-W is different, but hardly
> indispensable. As for Torben, as far as I recall he
> has contributed nothing. Whether the latter two are
> members of AHF I simply do not know. But I do agree
> that we must sever all connection with AHF, known
> and unknown. We agreed long ago when invited to link
> with them that didn't want to create any
> association, directly or indirectly, and I don't
> believe that should change.
>
> 2) In any organisation, somebody must be in charge.
> Even AHF has its "moderators." Mike, you have made
> it clear that you do not want to presently take on
> that role. I therefore think that Chris' suggestion
> that there be a revolving "chairman", with each of
> the three board members taking on the position
> annually, to be a sound one. We cannot continue with
> the situation as it is at present, where people who
> have become members within the last few months are
> laying down conditions for their continued
> membership. We are all sensible people; the board
> makes the rules in the manner Chris has suggested.
> If others do not like the decision, they resign.
> There can be no other way - rule my committee is
> impossible.
>
> 3) I sincerely hope that you will accept Chris'
> proposals in the spirit intended. This is not a
> question of a takeover, simply an attempt to avoid
> anarchy. I understand that none of this is going to
> thrill you, but the objective for which we all
> strive is more important than any perceived personal
> slights.

[...]

Aside from a shameful back-stabbing from Mel (who has actually supported me in some disputes with Chris and never voiced his misgivings to me), note how he raised several bogus issues. Of course, reporting the facts and "proving" the facts do not stand in any contradiction with each other. They're fully complementary. Facts reported correctly (and I mean, just correctly) are a help to us, anti-deniers. Facts reported incorrectly feed deniers. It's that simple. There is no difference in "agenda".

Leaving aside the silliness about me not being Russian, and condescending nonsense about us not being deniers (thaaaaaanks for that, buddy!), Mel actually supported Chris' (presumable) nonsense about AHF. There were, of course, no "ties" with AHF to be severed - anybody can register and post at that forum. It's if like someone was living in New York, being a member of XYZ society, and then the XYZ bosses suddenly decided to "sever all ties with New York" and exclude all New Yorkers just for the fun of it. Just demented.

Webb immediately seized the "opportunity":

mike / mel,

thanks for the support - much appreciated.

i will now write to all members informing them that
all connections with AHF are to severed, and all
members of that organisation are no longer members.

the right result and i look forward to working closely
with you both.

cheers

chris

Then the announcement followed, and Mike's reaction:

Chris, who you are, sending this out without our agreement?

Mike

And then:

mike,
Mel and i agree.
you are outvoted.
You are a member of AHF.- [nickname omitted].
You now have to make a choice, i hope you stay, but that is up to you.
The decisions have been made, the email has been sent.
I sense you backed the wrong horse with Sergey, what can i say other than its really a shame.
Cheers
Chris

And then everything went to hell, as told.

When later I asked Mike whether the forgeries issue has been discussed at all, he answered in the negative. And that is perhaps the saddest thing of all.

It's not necessary to describe the subsequent decay of the group, exacerbated by the fact that Webb was the owner of the deathcamps.org domain. If he wouldn't be, then it would be easy just to kick him out and proceed further. Alas, that wasn't the case.

Currently when you go to deathcamps.org you can see the following announcement:

Notice of Website Closure

It is with regret that we announce the closure of the Official ARC "Aktion Reinhard Camps" website.

The ARC Team has formally disbanded and all access to this site has been terminated.

We would like to take this time to announce the formation of our new research team

Holocaust Education & Archive Research Team

www.holocaustresearchproject.org

I know for certain that Chris Webb is at the heart of this new "team". Except for one another person, I don't know who has joined Webb. But ask yourself a simple question: if Chris Webb didn't admit that his "source" is unreliable; if he didn't even try to address my arguments, poking holes in his materials; if instead he tried to get me and other people (mostly uninvolved in the forgeries fiasco) out of the group; what will be the credibility of this new venture, when it opens up in November? Do you really expect not to see any materials from that "Andy", passed off as the authentic new materials, and bringing endless joy to deniers?

---

Finally, while all this brouhaha will give a lots of pleasure to "revisionists", don't ever forget - the most probable hypothesis about the origin of these forgeries is that they were created by a denier under a guise of a Holocaust researcher. (S)he has found some naive souls, indeed. But the bottom line is that these forgeries weren't created to "prove" the Holocaust. Quite the opposite.

---

Later developments: H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods.