Eric Hunt is No Longer a Holocaust Denier

[Update by SR: here is DenierBud (previously debunked by us) confirming that Hunt changed his mind on his own, without any coercion.]

The 'Revisionist' scene increasingly has a problem: while its videos, spam and other propaganda keep the flame alive on the far right and in at least some parts of the conspiracy theory world, the 'movement' seemingly cannot retain its activists. It's almost a year since Committe for Open Debate on the Holocaust founder Bradley R. Smith passed away, prompting zero newspaper obituaries and little acknowledgement from anti-defamation watchdogs, leaving the CODOH empire in the hands of the 'Holocaust Handbooks' publisher Germar Rudolf.

Despite revamping and rebranding many parts of the portfolio, it's been increasingly obvious for some time that the denier scene lacks enough researchers and writers to do more than put lipstick on an increasingly doddery pig. Worse still, the small number of newer stars drop out of the scene almost as fast as they become known, as happened for example with Thomas Kues and Friedrich Jansson. Or, like The Black Rabbit of Inlé, they openly admit that they no longer believe in the core tenets of 'Holocaust revisionism'.

The latest apostate? None other than video-maker Eric Hunt.

Holocaust Deniers and the Donald Trump Phenomenon: Some Observations

Holocaust denial lurks in the shadows of Donald Trump's support, alongside 9/11 conspiracy theories and other Alt-right memes. This present article is prompted by this Snopes.com report of the death last week of Victor Thorn, who was both a Holocaust denier, as shown here, and 9/11 Truther, as shown here. Last year, Thorn was a main source of the anti-Clinton diatribe co-authored by JFK conspiracist Roger Stone and despicable racist Robert Morrow, which was endorsed by Trump in this tweet, discussed here. The connections that link Thorn to Stone and Morrow, such as those raised by Media Matters for America here, can cast light on the netherworld in which Alt-right characters work.

Graf's Idiocy Regarding West German Trials (Part 1)

Between 1975 and 1981, Hildegard Lachert was one of sixteen defendants who stood trial in Düsseldorf for crimes committed at Majdanek. Her lawyers included Ludwig Bock, who explicitly denied the gas chambers and stated that there was no proof that more than 100,000 Jews ever died in the Nazi period. Despite this clear denial strategy, however, Lachert received a sentence of only twelve years for accessory to murder, having previously served a term in Poland from 1947 to 1956. The judges in the trial allowed Bock to conduct a cross-examination of witnesses "so severe as to approach intimidation."

Graf's Idiocy Regarding West German Trials (Part 2)

In addition to the general problems I identified in Part 1, which confront MGK concerning West German war crimes trials, Graf and his colleagues are burdened with the patterns that clearly emerge from testimonies and sentencing of defendants who stood trial in West Germany between 1963 and 1966 for crimes at the three Operation Reinhard camps.

Germar Rudolf's True Feelings about Jews

Can be read on page 39 of this report, which quotes Germar thus:

If the Holocaust is seen as a unique collection of lies, then the sole pillar supporting international Judaism's legitimacy will collapse. The idol of substitute religion will disintegrate. The possibility of extorting more billions from Germany on account of its alleged obligation will likewise collapse. The possibility of obligating America to eternally rescue the Jews from new Holocausts through endless donations of money will likewise collapse. World sympathy for the greatest liars and swindlers in the history of mankind will likewise collapse. Europe's second attempt to establish a lasting enclave in Palestine against the will of the Arabs, similar to the crusades, will likewise collapse. And finally, the future Arabia, which will be unified and self ruling without Jewish, American or European occupiers and colonial powers, will develop irresistibly. This explains why the Jews and Jewish dominated media and politicians everywhere defend these (Holocaust) lies and repress the prophets of truth by all means possible.

Denier Legalism: 3. Conspiracism and Faith-Based Assertions

When deniers discusses the trials of Aktion Reinhard staff, their 'researcher' masks slip and they descend rapidly into paranoia. Their statements become nothing more than faith-based assertions. For example, in this review of Schelvis's Sobibor study, Thomas Kues describes Sobibor perpetrator Gomerski in these terms:

Vidal-Naquet, Show Trials and McCarthyism

Anyone tempted to buy into denier rhetoric concerning "show trials" is strongly advised to read Chapter Five of Vidal-Naquet's A Paper Eichmann, which is on-line here. Below I highlight two major points, and add one of my own.

Read more!

Firstly, it is simply untrue, even in the Soviet show trials, that a dissenting voice was never heard. Vidal-Naquet cites the denial, made in court, by Krestinsky, which can be viewed here. Krestinsky had clearly been tortured enough for his persecutors to believe that he would confess in court, but on his first court appearance, he retracted whatever confession he had promised to give, and had to be subjected to further (presumably even more vicious) torture before he caved in the following day. Krestinsky thus proved, with great courage, that someone being tortured could still "have his day in court", even if his torturers defeated him subsequently. Furthermore, Vidal-Naquet notes that, when French deniers compared Hoess to Bukharin:

The comparison was unfortunate since Bukharin recognized practically nothing except his political defeat; those who were actually judged publicly, moreover, were only a minority. Certain others among them, such as Krestinsky or Kostov, retracted their confessions.

This leads to the second point, namely how show trial confessions differ from those of Hoess and other SS officers:

Eichmann's lawyer in Jerusalem, Servatius, claimed as much: "Hoess's testimony is characterized by the fact of his total submission,"[58] but I doubt that any other reader of the autobiography would have that impression. Hoess proliferates autobiographical details, insignificant but authentic facts, personal comments, the most varied political commentaries (including a denunciation of the Soviet camps), anti-Semitic and anti-Gypsy accusations. Nothing in it suggests either fabrication or dictation.[59] Upon being arrested by the Allies, Hoess was beaten (and why should we disbelieve him?) several times; he disavows his first signed statement (p. 244); he was also mistreated by his Polish guards at the beginning of his incarceration in Cracow (p. 247). At Nuremberg, on April 15, 1946, he was first called as a witness for the defense by Kaltenbrunner's lawyer, Kauffmann, a fact which Faurisson, normally so garrulous on the subject of Hoess, omits mentioning.[60]

SS perpetrator testimonies are replete with statements that do the prosecutors no favours, and which could indeed harm the prosecution (e.g. revelations of torture; condemnation of Soviet camps). Their political content is often antisemitic and contains statements defending Nazi actions. This is entirely different from the Soviet show trial confessional, in which the Stalinist regime was primarily interested in full self-condemnations that discredited all of Stalin's opponents.

To Vidal-Naquet's arguments, I would add a further comparison: McCarthyism. This anti-Communist crusade, also known as the Second Red Scare, used the investigatory and accusatory powers of the state, was close in time to the Nuremberg trials (which were still on-going when McCarthyism was beginning), and must thus have involved similar institutions and technologies of interrogation as those used by Americans in postwar Germany. McCarthyism was also just as aggressive in its intentions as the Nuremberg trials and de-Nazification. The [Jewish!] Judge in the Rosenberg case stated that:

I consider your crime worse than murder

Yet the prosecution could not elicit a confession from the Rosenbergs, even after coercing Julius by threatening to indict his wife. Moreover, this huge investment of state power did not involve a mass forgery of documentation. The Venona decrypts, which would have made convictions easier, were not used.

McCarthyism was therefore a political witch-hunt without a sophisticated hoax, and thus refutes the denier claim that the one must involve the other.

And now for something not completely different...

[Update: see a full debunking of Furr's Katyn book.]

[Update (30.03.2007): the page with Katyn discussion is now here on Prof. Furr's site (the URL has been renamed). Prof. Furr emphasizes on his site that I have put our exchange online despite his objections - you should read the whole posting to see why (the relevant info is near the end). Basically, he does the same thing to other people, so the emphasis is, let's say, misleading.]

The reason the Holocaust denial is the most prominent example of historical pseudo-revisionism in Western world is prominence of the Holocaust itself in the West. But whenever there's an "inconvenient" past to deal with, there's also an attempted denial of that past, sometimes on a state level (the Armenian genocide), sometimes on the grassroots level, as is the case with the Katyn massacre "revisionism" in Russia.

"Katyn responsibility deniers", as they may be called, are usually Stalin-admirers, but not necessarily Communists. Quite a lot of non-Communist (but pro-Soviet) nationalists and "statists" (derzhavniki) - many of them Orthodox Christians - see Stalin as a symbol of the mighty Russian empire. Thus the need for apology of Stalin's crimes - either by justifying (e.g., the purges of 1930s are often seen as "good" purges of "Old Bolsheviks" and "Jews") or denying them.

Katyn "revisionists" basically repeat the Soviet "interpretation" of evidence, blaming the German Einsatzkommandos or other units for the massacre. The Soviet version is slightly modified for "revisionist" purposes - thus, it is claimed that there was some deliberate disinformation in the Soviet Katyn report, but it was necessary for political purposes. Namely, allegedly the Polish POWs were no longer POWs since spring 1940, actually they had been sentenced to 5 years without the right for correspondence (thus the absence of letters to families after May 1940 is explained) and were sent to labor camps near Smolensk, where they were captured by the Germans and murdered. The lie about them no longer being POWs was allegedly necessitated by a need to cover up the breach of international conventions in sentencing the POWs for labor in camps. "Conversion" of POWs into sentenced prisoners also "solves" the problem of absence of these Poles in POW-related Soviet documents (whenever they were mentioned after the massacre, they were described as "sent to UNKVD in April-May of 1940"). See how neatly everything is explained?

Who Created The 'Hoax'? Inquiring Minds Are Still None The Wiser

Continuing yesterday's experiment with tuning out the rantings of internet Nazis, here's the second and hopefully final part of an increasingly hilarious attempt to persuade a raggle-taggle group of racialists, Holocaust deniers and Holocaust sceptics at The Phora to name the author of the alleged 'Hoax'.

As our good friend Xcalibur of the valiant RODOH Watch found out to his cost when he actually read through the original thread, and complained about in the comments below, there's much to be said for this hearing-one-side-of-a-telephone-conversation approach. Above all, you don't have to listen to the deniers ranting, rambling and drooling. Oh, the things we spare you, dear readers...

With that, over to the action.

Read more...


After a hard day's work, Sulla the Dictator returns circa 7pm Californian time to find that the shambling jelly monsters have been ululating in his absence. But first, a bit of thread housekeeping.

I ignored your post because you repeated yourself. You didn't seem to understand my reply. When there are documents and evidence which support 'exaggerations', then either they ARE NOT exaggerations or they have been fabricated (the evidence). This thread isn't about how much of the Holocaust you believe in, its about who is doing the actual leg work of fabricating evidence in your people's world. If you don't think that happened, then I don't see what your point is here.

This done, it's time for a new angle on the question. Might the Evil Commies have hoaxed the Hoax? Let's find out...

Well it looks like the Illuminati, the Templars and the New York Times are the best we can come up with at the moment, so I have another question that might get a more clear response.

The shadows of the Cold War were already being cast over Europe in late 1945 and 1946. Why would the Soviets support a charade about this genocide of European Jews in 1946? The Soviets were FAR less comitted to any consistant theme or government message to its own people than the West was, since there were really no consequences for lying to its public. The Soviets also had an interest in delegitimizing the West German regime, and beyond that the victorious leaders of both England and the United States. What better way to do that than expose this massive conspiracy to frame the German people?

And why would this conspiracy to cover up the Holocaust continue from one General Secretary to the next? Revolving members of the party apparatus had an interest in 'sweeping away' the mistakes of the last, 'exposing lies and crimes'. Why would Nikita Khrushchev reveal the atrocities of Joseph Stalin, and NOT his conspiracy to frame the West German workers who the Soviets were interested in swaying?

Why would the Soviets engage in a pro-Jewish conspiracy while they were arming the states of the Arab league, or considering military intervention against Israel in 1967?

Why would the Soviets be training members of the PLO while hiding this bombshell?

Of course, there's always the Illuminati. The Soviets need to be concerned with their wrath. (rofl) But why wouldn't the Soviets LEAK this information to someone else? There were plenty of neutral powers, such as the Indians, or the Swiss, or the South Africans. Why wouldn't the Soviet educational system allow an exchange program of academics to 'stumble across' this evidence? Why wouldn't the Soviets leak this information to the Egyptians? We scoff at these Arab Holocaust deniers because they're just angrier versions of ours. But if they had documents in hand, that would be a different story.

Does this prod more of a response from the deniers? No, of course not. The shambling jellymonsters want to talk about their pre-programmed debating 'points' instead:

This is an academic claim? Did you ever consider how....childish....it is to suggest that illustrative metaphor be interpreted as literal fact? Do you believe that there were 10,000 tribes of Gaul? Or that Pickett's Charge was resulted in a literal bath of blood?

And again, you don't seem to understand the point of this post. The levels of blood seeping out of the ground in a Nazi killing field is not relevant. That isn't "the Holocaust". Thats a testament to the horror of the aftermath of such butchery.

What you don't seem to realize, however, is that there is PLENTY of evidence for the slaughter at Babi Yar. This is, in fact, one of the Eastern front actions that I don't think even Holocaust deniers on this board would say didn't happen.

The action was done by Sonderkommando 4a. The report reads as follows:
"Berlin, October 2, 1941
Chief of the Security Police and the Security Service
48 copies (36th copy)
OPERATIONAL SITUATION REPORT USSR No.101
Einsatzgruppe C, Location: Kiev
Sonderkommando 4a in collaboration with Einsatzgruppe HQ and two Kommandos of police regiment South, executed 33,771 Jews in Kiev on September 29 and 30, 1941.
Einsatzgruppe D, Location: Nikolayev
The Kommandos continued the liberation of the area from Jews and Communist elements. In the period covered by the report, the towns of Nikolayev and Kherson in particular were freed of Jews. Remaining officials there were appropriately treated. From September 16 to 30, 22,467 Jews and Communists were executed. Total number 35,782. Investigations again show that the high Communist officials everywhere have fled to safety. On the whole, leading partisans or leaders of sabotage detachments have been seized."

I mean, to deny this is simply ridiculous. But if you're going to do it, the purpose of this thread is to identify who made it up, who ordered it to be made up, and who continues to force people to believe it.

Thats not a claim that historians have ever made. I believe that was in an editorial written by some fellow who was at Buchenwald. How is that at all relevant?

This is a ridiculous way to talk about history. Were we to apply it, we would have to stop believing in half of the battles that took place in the Classical world, as someone would say that he was 'imbued with the strength of Mars'.

Identify it. I no longer deal with generalities.

Well, lets start with a quesiton. How many books have you read on the Holocaust?

No reply. Next up, the increasingly obnoxious Wintermute, spewing venom, runs charging at Sulla and impales himself on the usual contradictions.

Except that you ignored specific cited examples. Thats not surprising, indeed its par for course with people like you. To make the above statement you quite simply must ignore the flood of Soviet revisions, retractions, and policy shifts as well as admissions, inquiries, and falsehoods. But thats fine. Ignoring facts is what you do. Of course, its quite possible you never learned them.

One of the things that seems so convenient for people like you is that since you don't believe in "Orthodox" history, you never have to bother to learn it. Which allows for all your website fiction. Much easier to browse, and how fortunate! It conforms with your pre-existing biases!

Thats how someone like you can come here and say "The Soviets had to be concerned with a loss of legitimacy" or "the Soviets were worried about public lies". Which is utter rubbish. The Soviet leadership could care less about the 'public reaction' to what it did. You would know that if you bothered to actually learn about the USSR.

"Nothing stretched the creative powers of the politruks more than the job of explaining the news. Looking at Soviet foreign policy in the last few months of peace, one almost feels sorry for them. Most troops were not sophisticated men, and many could not reas a paper for themselves, but even a semiliterate drunk would have noticed a curious change of police in 1939. On 23 August the Soviet foreign minister, Vyacheslav Molotov, signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany.
Red Army men had been forced to sit through sermons on the threat of Fascism for a decade. Now, suddenly, they were told that the Germans had become their allies. On Stalin's sixtieth birthday in December 1939, the telegrams of congratulation included one from Adolf Hitler. The Fuehrer included his best wishes "for the happy future of the friendly people of the Soviet Union:.
Neither civilians nor troops knew what to think about the news of the pact. When their turn came to explain it, political staff were forced to draw upon the revolutionary rhetoric of historic progress. It was always possible to talk of international proletarian solidarity, and the German working class held a special place in Soviet imaginations, not least because its industry was so admired. But the idea of a treaty with Hitler could only be a shock. Cadets in one staff college thought the story was a spoof. Elsewhere, a politruk simply gave up when someone asked him if the next war would be an imperialist one. "There's no point," he answered, "in counting imperialist wars...When the war's over, a party congress will convene, and they'll tell us what type of war it was"."
Ivan's War, Catherine Merridale, Page 72

And thats just one example of a Soviet leadership indifferent to how policy related to public opinion. Those details were left to the political officers and party vizhods spread across the USSR.

No one would have been hurt more than the West by the revelation that the Holocaust was a fraud. The Soviets were the most anti-semitic power on Earth after the end of WWII, and in the Cold War era their allies were composed of minor anti-semitic powers. There is no motive for hiding this 'conspiracy', especially as Israel fell more and more under the American sphere of influence. Of course, in your 'reply' (Which was not a response) you ignored all but 4 lines of my post. I suppose that you do a lot better when you're simply talking to yourself.

The Russians were under no obligation to invent the issue in the first place. And moreover, they could have BLAMED the West for the forging of documents.

Moreover, this Illuminati Holocaust conspiracy could have been exposed by Khruschev when he brought Stalin's other dealings to light. Why would he specifically HIDE this event? There's no reason he would, of course, which is another glaring whole in this Soviet-Illuminati connection.

So then the Soviets didn't lose more than 13 million soldiers and civilians in the war? Wintermute might be the only Holocaust denier LEFT who denies EASTERN atrocities as well as concentration camps!

As I've already told you, the Soviets were more than willing to blame the West for fabrications, tricks, and academic traps.

Yeah, thats really funny.

But please, be more of a Nazi cheerleader. It really goes over well when reading it. It does suit you though. Its 'funny' how the death camps were in the East, and its 'funny' how the war criminals ran West.

But since you have claimed that its all just a bunch of lies, then why would the 'war criminals' be in the West, since the Soviets could throw anyone in a uniform and claim he was the group leader for a death squad which never existed?

Oh, thats right. Wintermute SELECTIVELY believes in Soviet academic and historic integrity.

Well you see, thats just the thing. The Russians allowed unprecedented access to the Soviet archives throughout the 1990s. I must have missed the revelations about the Great Holocaust Code, starring Tom Hanks.

ROFLMAO This is Wintermute using the PC nutter's approach to what Illusion already told us: The Illuminati, the Templars, Freemasons, and Rothschilds. Different names for the same thing.

I would ask the 'fence sitter' to examine his experience of the world. Consider what you've read of history, economics, and politics. Is this how the world works? Shadowy smoke filled rooms inventing historical events, plotting against nations, conspiring against you?

We used to give people psychiatric care for paranoia. Now, with the Internet, they're free to spew their sickness all over our computer screens. Its all cute at first, and weird. But after a while, it just becomes boring.

Let me guess: You have absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever.

Start a thread about Barbarossa and I'll happily thrash you on that issue as well. You've already taken this thread off topic enough. We won't be discussing the "defensive barbarossa operation" here.

If there are 'forged Holocaust documents' in that book, share them. Then identify what Western history books they have been used in. I suspect that there are not, otherwise I wouldn't have to ask you for them.

Evidence?

Evidence?

Evidence?

Evidence?

The reader is again invited to evaluate. Here we have a rather vulgar bigot in wintermute (Notice the unnecessary 'kike' statement, for shock value and to 'prove' himself to his fellow anti-smites. He's 'one of them'), who alternately suggests that the Soviets were the greatest evil in human history and 'alright guys, after all is said and done'. They 'took it easy' on the East Germans, they 'gave the major part of access' (?) to a German historian. Barbarossa saved the world.....but things wern't that bad after the Germans LOST that campaign.

This is an inconsistant worldview. Why though? The answer is quite clear. They have no answers to the question. They don't know WHY the Soviets would do this thing they claim they did, they just 'believe' they did it. They don't know WHO did it, they just 'believe' it was done.

They aren't interested in learning things, or achieving accurate conclusions. No crimes in history meet the burden of proof Holocaust deniers require. Wintermute believes in mass rapes and murders when the Soviets occupied Germany. Why though? There is less evidence of that than there is for the Holocaust. Virtually ALL of those claims are from 'eye witness testimony' by Germans, who have the same anti-Soviet motivation to lie that the Holocaust deniers claim Jewish victims of the Holocaust did.

Holocaust deniers are rabid believers in Stalinist atrocities. Why though? The estimates of those deaths vary by MILLIONS, not hundreds of thousands like the Holocaust. And yet while Holocaust deniers claim that such a variance of estimates means the thing never happened, they'll simper and whine about "Allied atrocities" ala gulags until you give them a pacifier.

But you have claimed that the Soviets were responsible for most of the fabricating. Why would the Soviets fabricate evidence to indict a subject population and then not use that? Why would the Soviets indict a West German population they were trying to seduce?

Wintermute is pretty much making this up as he goes along, folks, so be patient with him. Lets take stock of where he's 'led' us. The Soviets were planning on invading Europe, and the Germans bravely invaded them first! They saved Europe! But....then they lost the war, and as the Soviets advanced they fabricated evidence of the Holocaust (Simultaneously, the Western Allies were doing the same thing).

Then, they occupied Germany, and absolved the people they had framed of any responsibility for these atrocities they fabricated. Then they launched an anti-semitic purge, started arming the Arab neighbors of Israel, and considered launching an airborne and amphibious invasion of Israel. Israel, the nation they had conspired with the Rothschilds (I'm sorry, the "World Bank") to create.

They began to train and arm PLO terrorists while they secretly held the documents ordering the fabrication of the Holocaust.

Then, the Soviet Union fell apart. And as new Russians took the jobs of Soviet party hacks, they found these documents and independantly decided to hide them from academic view at the same time they cleverly allowed unprecedented acces to old Soviet archives. The Russians were willing to allow Westerners to look at documents where Stalin is signing off on executions, but were utterly unwilling to allow the documents ordering the forging of documents to be seen.

I assume that these documents were sent to the Vatican for safe keeping, right next to the secret birth certificate for Mary's love baby with Christ.

Troll #2 returns, still whining about Elie Wiesel:

Thats really interesting George, and thanks for your input. I notice, however, that you go on to say alternately:....

Of course, and if you reference my previous post, you'll see that one of my points is that to question some claims made about the 'Holocaust' is not to question all such claims.

Which, I guess, leads me to believe that you are 'so wise' that you didn't know that this 'geysers of blood' business refers to Babi Yar. So when I told you about Babi Yar, I was referring to this specific event. So your 'revision' is the idiotic point that a 'geyser of blood' didn't happen (Which is illustrative language), but you don't deny that Babi Yar happened. Thats really interesting. How is the CONSEQUENCE of the slaughter as relayed in illustrative langauge supposed to be 'some claim' about the Holocaust thats relevant to the actual Holocaust? The murder of people at Babi Yar is whats relevant. The height of blood squirting out of the ground where they're buried is not relevant.

By the way, you didn't answer the question. How many books on the Holocaust have you read?

The rest of your post is trolling, so I'll ignore it.

George, is your trolling due to the fact that you have nothing to contribute, but need to have my attention?

Except that the troll ignored the fact that I was asking for evidence:
"b.) Other items often held up as pieces of 'evidence' are not necessarily fabrications, but the interpretation of their significance as 'evidence' is fundamentally flawed, predicated as it is on the inherent biases and preexisting beliefs of the investigators."
Identify it. I no longer deal with generalities
Meaning: "Other items" and "pieces of evidence" and "interpretations". How am I supposed to deal with "Other items", unnamed?

Its strange how off topic this thread needs to go. Why can't we get some answers to the two basic questions? Is this the best you people can do?

Is your lack of knowledge about the Holocaust and your inability to answer a few simple questions the reason you want to talk about WMD and the war in Iraq?

Is that how this works?

This topic isn't about racial matters. Its about facts regarding history. George referred to some vague, nebulous 'facts' in dispute. I asked for specifics, because I can't rebutt 'evidence' that he won't share.

Still waiting, BTW.

You noticed that it had been changed to Jews (By people unable to answer questions), which is why those posts have been moved to the Race forum. Under the title of "The Jews".

Back to Wintermute, who tries the ol' Burden-of-Proof Table Tennis tactic, and gets the ball thwacked back onto his side of the net.

Can anyone see an actual reply to my post in Wintermute's response?

We'll wait and see. I doubt we'll be hearing you address any substantial portion of the post. I can see how replying like this appeals to you. How about we try this: Why don't you prove to us that the US State Department, the World Bank, and the Harvard Economics Department equals Jewry. And why don't you prove that somewhere else than this thread, which isn't about your Jew fetish?

It must be nice to have a cheering section of preinstalled idiots who can keep applauding your tripe, Wintermute. It allows you to keep your illusions about how you're doing intact. Fortunately, I don't care about your Neo-Nazi cheering squad. Your inability to answer simple questions has been shown again and again. Why would you expect me to be familiar with the details of your particular lunacy regarding conspiracies to destroy Aryan Russia?

"I am a despicable troll, and I'm sorry for willfully misrepresenting your words"
You're forgiven. Maybe you're not as despicable a troll as you appear.

"This is false.
Please answer the question as asked above: do you continue to maintain that my account of the IMF/Harvard/the Clinton Administration is tantamount to Illuminism, Templarism, and the like?
It would seem you are the one here who does not wish to answer questions.
Wintermute"
I'm not going to discuss the IMF/World Bank/Harvard economics department/Clinton State Department/Soros conspiracy absent its relevance in to this thread. If you can relate it to the Holocaust, we'll discuss it. If not, take it elsewhere. Preferably, to the swamp hut.

After which, the thread degenerates into whines, complaints and insults as the shambling jellymonsters (since reduced to two in number from the original 11) realised they have been pwn3d, again.

Well, I guess thats it. I'm sorry I was hard on you, Wintermute. After your spamming of reported posts, I've come to realize that I've deeply wounded you. You and George Clark both. Terrible thing. Between my harshness and my apparent 'moderator abuse', maybe I should just let you folks have this forum as an echo chamber.

Obviously Holocaust Deniers can't handle scrutiny.

Please stop trolling, George Rogers Clark. You've shown through your excessive neg repping, complaining about recieving negative reputation, and reported posts that you have a great deal of concern for the civility of the forum. If you have anything to add to the topic, please contribute. If you do not, please save it for the lounge.

Report the post, Dan, or start a thread in the Help Desk.

Backing away from my claims? Not at all. Everything I said stands, unassailed, since you ignored the entire post. Its just that it means a great deal to you. Enough, obviously, for you to suggest that just by replying to you I'm violating my job as a moderator. You made something like 3 or 4 reports in the span of twenty minutes. I hadn't realized I was being so hard on you.

I try not to excite emotional people. Its unnecessarily cruel. I just thought you fellows had thicker skin. My mistake. I'm quite sorry if I upset you, Wintermute.

Are you going to be ok if I answer you? I want to make sure of that before I go into detail.

Cue Wintermute storming off in a huff, vowing never to post on The Phora until it is 'cleaned up' (one assumes, code for cleansed of Jews, communists and fellow-travellers).

The final word, as of the time of this posting, goes to Petr, a college student and convinced Creationist. There's an irony in there somewhere.

You can be quite a drama queen, Winnie. Does this mean that you are not going to answer to my posts on these threads either?

Our prediction of where this thread will go... well, it's not actually our prediction, just something someone observed a good ten years ago about how these moonbats argue:

17. Although all of your arguments will be consistently blown to smithereens, just wait a few days or weeks and then re-post them.

Do they know how predictable they are?

Who Created The 'Hoax'? Inquiring Minds Would Like To Know

Over at The Phora, playground of demented young pseudo-intellectual racialist fruitloops the world over, one of the few sane people still in possession of their marbles asks a salient question of the assembled horde of 'Revisionists':

Who created the 'Holohoax' they like talking about so much?

Cue much earnest rumination and cud-chewing from the bovine herd of deniers, much passing of gas and very little enlightenment.

Since discussing these things with internet Nazis is like talking to a brick wall, I'll give you Sulla the Dictator's questions and responses and you can fill in the blanks. Believe me, it makes much more sense that way...

Read more...

Here is how Sulla began:

What shadowy group is responsible for creating this 'myth', and then KEEPING IT IN PLACE like Opus Dei in the Da Vinci Code, "Revisionists" of the Phora? I would like to discuss this specific issue, gentlemen. Now that you have a forum dedicated to this...business...we can afford to discuss these subjects individually rather than the whole topic in single threads.

Cue the first shambling jellymonster attack, and the rest is internet history, in both senses of the term:

I'm sure that there are those on this board who are 'on the fence', as it were, regarding the Holocaust. I'm also certain that THIS question, in particular, is one they would like answered. The massive conspiracy to INVENT a historical event and then catalogue it in such detail is unprecedented in human history. So I'm sure that they are very curious about the details of this. Certainly there must be an answer.
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So the Jews, is that your answer?
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So a Jewish reporter, the New York times, and the lawyers of 'several Jewish organizations' are responsible for fabricating the Holocaust, forcing the governments of Britain, France, the United States, the USSR, and the rest of Europe to falsify evidence, plant bodies, and fabricate documents?
And then this Jewish reporter, the New York Times, and the lawyers of 'several Jewish organizations' created a shadowy unit of enforcers to KEEP the governments of Britain, France, the United States, the USSR, and the rest of Europe in compliance with this fabrication, as well as penetrating academia to force them to go along with it as well?
Are you sure this is the best you can do?
BTW, this is NOT a thread about "The Holocaust didn't happen". This is a thread about who supposedly is responsible for 'making it up' and keeping it as "orthodox history". Don't tell me thats the best you can do.
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This doesn't address the question that I'm sure 'everyone on the fence' about this issue would like answered. Who made it up?
The genocide of European Jews certainly existed in HISTORY before 1967, Tom, and had an influence in both American and European politics in the shadow it cast over the far right on both continents. This is not an issue for this thread, however.
I'm curious where this diabloical scheme was hatched, and who carried it out.
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You would agree that what you just described has no bearing on the events happening between 1939 and 1947, correct?
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Ok George, thats great. And in some other thread, I'm sure that will be an answer to SOME question. But that isn't the answer to mine, in this thread. I would like to know WHO fabricated the Holocaust, and who ordered them to do it, and how they went about it. I'd be happy to hear your theories on that. So far, we've got a Jewish reporter, a Beltway paper, and a dozen lawyers.
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Its hardly a strawman, since I didn't direct the question at you. There are:
1) People who DO subscribe to a conspiracy theory
2) Such people on this board
3) posts by NeoNietzsche in this thread making the argument
Your statement implied that you had some objection. I would like to clarify the matter. You don't SEEM to have an objection, or atleast, you don't seem to be interesting in stating it. Therefore I assume you don't believe that there was any fabrication of the Holocaust. Correct?
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Who are you, again?
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Thats interesting. Now lets see if you can grasp this. The Holocaust is not a story we read in books of fiction or see on stage or watch in movies, 'a tale woven by storytellers or entertainers'. Its a topic taught in universities, studied by scholars, written about by historians, and serves as an example to governments.
If it happened (Which most people know it did), then thats all well and good. If it DID NOT HAPPEN, then its a bit beyond the realm of "Fiddler on the Roof", George. The purpose of this thread, then, is to identify those people who FABRICATED the 'exaggerations' that we're studying in academia, not the 'dramatics' of the Pianist. This isn't a critique of film making. Its a view at those parties responsible for taking what you suggest are exaggerations and then manufacturing evidence which support them.
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Why would anyone forge a document if they believe an event happened? How does a Soviet and an American forge thousands of documents "on their own" which just happen to serve as evidence for the same exact crime, and indeed, indict specific people on specific charges?
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Great. Thats fine. Thanks.
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Well then, we come to the original question. Who ordered the fabrication of the evidence that they DID that very thing, in the way you dismissively describe, who fabricated it, and who continues to force others to lie about that being very real?
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Why would they fabricate things about gas chambers? They could have said that 6 million were simply shot.
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Who ordered these lies? Then who fabricated the evidence which supports them as fact? Then who forces historians to continue to regard them as fact?
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Now THATS more like it! THATS what I've been expecting to see!
Now are the NWO and the Illuminati the same organization, and are they composed of Jews?
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Ok. Well here's the problem with that, George. They're academics. An academic who is handed a piece of fake evidence doesn't say "I'm a Jew, I better support this fake evidence". He investigates it, because thats his job. Careers are built on that type of historical discovery. You've said that there is no conspiracy. So then you would have us believe that ON THEIR OWN, the academic community are passing on falsehoods and exaggerations.
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Your theory seems to be that Jews (Who you seem to think are the only people allowed in academia) operate off of a Hive Mind, instead of a conspiracy like Illusion believes.
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Well if you read about the Holocaust, you would know that its not a series of pictures of shoes.
But maybe you'd like to explain how a 'skilled storyteller' has to spin a German document saying they've killed such and such amount of Jews, or another that says their goal is to kill such and such amount of Jews.
That needs spinning? Or is it true?
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You believe that there is a group of people who conspire to fabricate evidence and enforce its teaching, 60 years after the end of WWII?
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Well yeah it does Tom, because we have evidence. And that evidence is either true, or its fabricated. Which is the point of this thread. That doesn't have anything to do with 'spinning' a thing. The Wanssee Protocol is either real or it isn't. It can't be 'spun'.
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Ask who?
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Wait a second, didn't you claim that there was no conspiracy to fabricate the Holocaust in the 1940s? Now there was, huh?
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Actually Illusion, fabricating stamps is a bit different than fabricating millions of documents. A stamp, or a coin, or a dollar, or a document, are different areas of specialty. So no, I don't think people who forge stamps are capable of forging documents of any quality.
But ok, we finally have an answer as to who is actually doing the dirty work!
Those members of the Allies who were forging stamps were sent to the field to forge millions of records. Because if you can forge stamps, you can forge ANYTHING. Thats really interesting. I can't wait until we get to the illumanti.
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Oh so its a mystery, to boot. Well done Dan Brown.
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I don't know if you're just completely unfamiliar with the material and thus making an honest mistake, or if you're just deliberately lying. The West has never believed that the Germans were responsible for the Katyn massacre. The Western Allies REFUSED to allow that to be entered as a charge for the German warcriminals at Nuremberg. Two US investigations on the subject in 1944 (!) and several British intelligence reports confirmed that the Soviets were responsible. I invite you to QUOTE A HISTORIAN that isn't a Soviet citizen who says the Germans were responsible for Katyn.
In 1952 the US Congress had a public hearing on the subject, and concluded that the Soviets were responsible. So no, this was never 'debunked' since it was never part of the history of the Holocaust. German atrocities in the field, by the way, are not usually considered a part of the Holocaust. Otherwise we'd be throwing Malmedy into the mix, which we're not.
Furthermore, saying that a gas chamber is a reconstruction is not 'propaganda'. Also, no one was ever charged with steam chambers, and I'd like you to source reference to them in historical texts teaching about the Holocaust, and not just eye witness testimony from Polish partisans looking at gas chambers in a Polish winter and mistaking heat or gas for steam....as they watch from the forest.
Finally, you just disproved your case, even though you're absolutely wrong about everything you said. If this Orthodox Templar Illuminati New World Order imposed this 'story', why are these charges allowed to be 'overturned' (Even though they never existed)?
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What are you babbling about? No serious person considers the Nazis innocent of the crimes they were charged with NOW.
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Holocaust Deniers can't stand scrutiny, or people arguing with them. Thats why they belong in little echo chambers like "Revisionist Forum", where they moderate or ban anyone who argues with their stupid little lies.
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Ok. I'll happily LIST the people who you say are responsible:
1. The House of Rothschild
2. The Middle Temple of London
3. The Illuminati, AKA, the Templars
I'm more than happy to nominate Illusion to be THE SOLE representative of Holocaust Denial on this board. Do any Holocaust deniers take exception to his theory of events?
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What does this have to do with the Illuminati, the NWO, the Secret Jewish Overlords, or any other of the hobgoblins you and your little friends believe in?
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Yes, I have one. In the middle of your bizzare rant, why didn't you take any time to discuss the issue of this thread? This thread isn't about your silly theories on the Holocaust. This is about who faked it. And it isn't about laughable (Insane) broad strokes, either, such as "The Jews" or "England". Its about hard tacks. Organizations or government officials who ordered it, individuals or units who forged documents, and then organizations, individuals, or units which are forcing people to teach it now.
I've noticed that you folks seem utterly incapable of answering these questions, with the exception of Illusion, who fingers the Illuminati.
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Can you be more specific?
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So Dan, do you buy into either of our two theories for who 'invented' the Holocaust? So far its the Illuminati, the Templars, and the Rothschilds versus the New York times and a dozen Jewish lawyers. Do you subscribe to either of these theories or do you have your own?
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I'm sorry, I just can't discuss this illuminati/templar/freemason business. I just can't take it seriously. So we'll just accept that as a theory for the reader to consider.

N.B. it took 11 'revisionists' and 'sceptics' to reach this conclusion. This, after one accuses the entirety of academic of possessing a Hive Mind...

If you really insist on wading through the conspiracy theories, click through to read the thread in full).