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In his post of Sep 20, 2008 5:34 pm on the CODOH thread NAFCASH throws Muehlenkamp a bone, an enlightened spirit using the handle "grenadier" disgraced himself with the message commented hereafter.
Actually, the charlatans often use the fraudulent argument of "the work can't be done on account of religious grounds".
Actually religious considerations of respect for the dead are not a mere pretext but a real issue when it comes to excavation at Nazi mass killing sites, as becomes apparent from the article A Monumental Failure at Belzec, written in 2003 by Rabbi Avi Weiss, and the article New Excavations At Chelmno Death Camp, posted by Shmuel Ben Eliezer in September 2007.
However, as I pointed out in my previous update, such considerations have not hampered archaeological research at the former extermination camps to the extent of preventing archaeological investigations that led to identifying the mass graves and establishing their size and contents, namely at Chelmno, at Belzec (both of which camps, incidentally, have disappeared from the NAFCASH challenge – Gerdes must have got cold feet) and at Sobibor, though in regard to the latter the absence of a published detailed report on archaeological findings still feeds "Revisionist" conspiracy theories and other rhetoric.
As poster ASMarques correctly remarked, it is not a problem if some French priest excavates a few pits containing a few dozen skeletons of alleged Jews allegedly killed by the EG in the Ukraine, but all of a sudden it becomes an unsurmountable problem when it comes to the AR camps, where in areas the size of large parking lots, some 2 million Jews are supposed to have been buried. What a joke! Rolling Eyes
What the fellow is talking about here is obviously the Yahad in Unum project of Father Patrick Desbois, regarding which he or his source are either misinformed or lying in two respects.
One is that Father Desbois did not just find "a few pits containing a few dozen skeletons". According to this page,
Yahad In Unum has identified and documented relatively small ditches with less than one-thousand victims, mid-sized ditches holding up to ten-thousand victims, and large sites of extermination with over eighty thousands victims.
By October 2007, when this article appeared in the New York Times, Father Desbois had "videotaped more than 700 interviews with witnesses and bystanders and has identified more than 600 common graves of Jews, most of them previously unknown".
The other misconception, deliberate or not, is that Yahad in Unum dug up the graves they found and extracted their contents, as the mouthing of Mr. "grenadier" suggests. According to the aforementioned page, the procedure adopted is the following (emphases added):
In cases where the eyewitnesses are unsure of the precise location of a jewish mass grave, test digging is done in a two square meter area. Oftentimes, several of these test diggings are required in order to find the location of a mass grave. In one particular instance, eighteen test digs were needed. The Nazis buried their victims at a depth of at least three meters, which makes the identification more difficult. According to the eyewitness testimonies, the digging of the ditches took an average of five hours and was done by peasants who arrived very early in the morning. The depth of the mass graves also explains why it was exceedingly rare for any survivors of the shooting to escape from the mass grave after it was covered with dirt and the nazi mobile killing units had moved on.
Once the first bodies are encountered they are left in situ and not disturbed. The bodies are photographed as evidence and any bullets and other ballistic evidence retrieved from the site before the grave is covered up and camouflaged in order not to allow graverobbers to loot and desecrate it. Yahad In Unum’s purpose in identifying and excavating a portion of the mass graves is to document the evidence, provide proof of the mass grave’s existence, and mark the site by GPS. Yahad In Unum has obtained the authorization for this part of the work from the Lubawitscher rabbis of Ukraine.
Detailed information about the results of Father Desbois’ project is available in his recently published book, which I have on order.
Fact is, had the story been true, we wouldn't even be talking about performing excavations today 'cause the Communists would have done it back in the 1940s.
Actually that’s exactly what the "Communists" did. Regarding Soviet crime site investigations on re-conquered Soviet territory, read Nick Terry’s article Mass Graves in the Polesie and my article Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies .... Regarding Treblinka, read my article Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure ..., featuring Polish crime site investigation reports translated by "Revisionist" gurus Mattogno & Graf and included in their book about Treblinka, thereby making the same a not completely useless piece of writing. Regarding Belzec, Mattogno did historiography a similar favor on pages 79f of his otherwise worthless Belzec book (partially commented in this article), from which the following quote is taken:
On October 12, 1945, the Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc, Czeslaw Godzieszewski, presented an "Account of the diggings in the cemetery of the Belzec extermination camp," in which he set down the findings from the inspection of the Belzec camp he had made that day, aided by 12 workers. In this context, he wrote:242
"The opening labeled No. 1 was taken down to a depth of 8 m and a width of 10 m and attained the bottom level of the graves. During the operation, at a depth of about 2 m, we struck the first layer of ash stemming from incinerated human bodies, mixed with sand. This layer was about 1 m thick. The next layer of ash was discovered at a depth of 4 – 6 meters. In the ash removed, some charred remains of human bodies were found, such as hands and arms, women’s hair, as well as human bones not totally burnt. We also recovered pieces of burnt wood. In trench No. 1, the layer of human ash stopped at a depth of 6 meters. The opening labeled No. 2 was taken down to a depth of 6 meters. In this trench, the layer of human ash began at a depth of 1.5 m and continued down to a depth of some 5 m, with occasional breaks. Here, too, the ash contained human hair, part of a human body, pieces of clothing, and remnants of incompletely burnt bones. Openings labeled Nos. 3 and 4 were freed to a depth of 3 meters. In hole No. 4, at a depth of 80 cm, we found a human skull with remnants of skin and hair, as well as two shinbones and a rib. Furthermore, at a level of between one and three meters, these holes yielded human ash mixed with sand and fragments of incompletely burnt human bones. Openings labeled Nos. 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 were dug to a depth of 2 m, but showed only human ash mixed with sand and human bones, such as jawbones and shinbones. Throughout all the excavations it was observed that the camp cemetery had already been disturbed by wildcat diggings; this is borne out by the fact that the layers of human ash are not uniform but mixed with sand. The recovered human bones; the bodily remains, which where in a state of complete decomposition; and the ash were collected in a common location to await the arrival of the district surgeon. Work was stopped at 17:30 hours."
The next day, October 13, 1945, the findings were inspected by the coroner. The subsequent report describes primarily the results of the examination performed by the judge and the coroner:243
"During the inspection of the area of the extermination camp, particularly during the excavations at the place of the cemetery on October 12, 1945, a large number of human bones were found, such as skulls, parts of skulls, vertebrae, ribs, collarbones, shoulder blades, arm bones, lower legs, wrists, fingers, pelvic bones, thigh bones, lower legs, and foot bones. Some of the bones mentioned are either partly burnt or had not been burnt at all. Except for a few skulls showing rotting scalp and hair, the majority of the bones are free from soft tissue. Among the remains of human bodies recovered on October 12, 1945, we identified two forearms and a lumbar portion of the backbone with some soft tissue and traces of carbonization. The lumbar section belongs to an adult, whereas the forearms come from a child a few years old. From the size of the various bones one can conclude that they belong to persons of different age groups, from two-year-olds up to very old people, as borne out by toothless jaws and numerous dentures. Among the jawbones found there was one partially burnt specimen containing milk teeth as well as incipient permanent teeth, which indicates that it belongs to a person 7 to 8 years of age. No traces of bullet holes or other mechanical wounds were found on the skulls. The long bones show no traces either of gunshot wounds or fractures. Because of the advanced state of decomposition it was very difficult to say to what organs the recovered shapeless portions of soft tissue from human bodies might belong. In a hole dug by the local population in a search for gold and valuables, two lower legs belonging to a two-year-old child were discovered. These members are partly decomposed, partly mummified. The area of the cemetery, in particular the wildcat holes, is covered with layers of human ash of varying breadth, which stem from the incineration of human corpses and wood; they are intermingled with sand in varying proportions. The color of the ash varies between light-ash and dark gray; the ash has a heavy consistency and smells of decomposing human bodies. In the ash, charred human bones as well as pieces of charcoal are clearly visible. In the lower strata of the ash the smell of decomposition is more pronounced than in the layers nearer the surface. The hair discovered belongs mainly to women, as shown by their length and by the type of arrangement (braids and buns fixed with hairpins). In addition to natural hair, we encountered ladies’ wigs as well. With this, the inspection was terminated."
Mr. "grenadier" could have done something about his woeful ignorance by just reading some of his "Revisionist" scripture.
But it's all a L-I-E, a filthy and horrendous lie!
There were no homicidal gassings during the war. Niemand wurde vergast!
The more often and intensely "Revisionists" repeat such pious prayers, the more I wonder to what extent they really believe their own BS.
Meanwhile, on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka, Greg Gerdes continues showing what a charlatan, coward and obnoxious crackpot he is. See my post # 1300 on that thread.