Saturday, July 19, 2008

"Muehlenkamp accepts nafcash's challenge"

Thanks to my new friend Greg Gerdes, another cowardly "Revisionist" charlatan, Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis has been given the opportunity to indulge in another of his mendacious victory dances. See the Cesspit thread Muehlenkamp accepts nafcash's challenge.

I actually did accept that challenge, and it’s not a big deal, as I wrote in my post # 596 of the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka:

Nothing to make a fuss about, actually. I’ve become so interested in the subsoil of these camps, especially Sobibor, that I intend to find out as much as I can about it for this reason already. If I can get my findings published in Archeology or Skeptic magazine, or at least co-author an article in one of those publications, that would be great. And if doing so furthermore forces an intellectual midget and lowly piece of scum to pay me 100,000 dollars, that would be the icing on the cake.

My comments to both Gerdes’ and Hannover’s rambling on the above-mentioned CODOH thread can be read in posts nos. 734, 739 and 740 of the VNN thread also mentioned above.

Greg Gerdes and Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis are some of the most mendacious, hysterical and cowardly true believers in "Revisionist" cloud-cuckoo-land (though of course they have stiff competition). It is therefore quite amusing to see these two showpieces of "Revisionist" imbecility and intellectual dishonesty chatting with each other – moreover about someone who, as both of them know, has no access to the forum where their conversation is taking place.

That’s "Revisionism" in all it’s splendor, folks!

Update, 20.07.2008, 11:08 hours GMT

Regarding the latest of Gerdes on CODOH, see my post # 750 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka.

For a better idea of what Gerdes is all about, see also posts nos. 743 to 747 on the same thread.

2nd update, 24.07.2008, 23:55 hours GMT

3rd update, 26.07.2008, 15:08 hours GMT

4th update 29.07.2008, 15:00 hours GMT

5th update, 30.07.2008, 23:59 GMT

6th update, 03.08.2008, 0:48 GMT

7th update, 27.08.2008, 23:34 GMT

8th update, 09.09.2008, 12:19 GMT

9th update, 20.09.2008, 22:53 GMT

10th update, 21.09.2008, 15:01 GMT

11th update, 22.09.2008 14:38 GMT


nicholas thorpe said...

It is interesting that Hargis and Gerdes went to the VNN forums, where they are likely in the company of their peers; everyone knows that VNN is probably one of the vilest sites on the Internet; its main site has a header the statement, No Jews Just Right. The people there believe the Holocaust never happened, but openly talk about how they wish it had happened, and that Hitler had wiped out all the Jews.

Their open admiration for Hitler is truly disgusting, that is what they have in common with Hargis and Gerdes, who incidentally never say anything substantive in response to your posts; they just talk about how stupid you are, and how easy it is to debunk Holocaust claims.

Codoh is filled with terrible Nazi ass-kissers, like Claudia Rothenbach and Christian Identity loon kiwichap. Not to mention Bradley Smith himself. I often wonder why you guys waste time going to places like VNN and making arguments that are obviously not going to have any effect on the Hitler-philes who dwell there.

This blog is valuable as a resource for those who do not buy into revisionist nonsense, and revisionists typically say that their views are uncontested and all the evidence supports their side. This blog proves otherwise.

Robert86 said...

Well put... I often think about the same thing. These people over at VNN, CODOH and Stormfront are vile, mendacious, malicious, Nazi-philes who pass themselves off as heroic idealists and truth seekers.

I asked Roberto why he even bothered to argue with such people. They obviously have their minds made up and many are unwilling to see differently because reality means nothing compared to their idealogical fantasy.

Yet Roberto doesen't want them to be uncontested in debates and so he continues to challenge them. Definitely not a sign of cowardice.

Holowiz said...

You guys like to discredit personal attitudes of ANYONE who expresses a critical challenge to gas chambers.

It is a must for anyone interested in knowing what really happened to ask why there are so many lagoons when documenting the existence of such a huge extermination plan, for example, there is not a single document, not a single sentence captured during the war (hundreds of intercepted messages from Auschwitz, millions of documents in Arolsen,...) clearly talking about gassings, while, in the other hand, they are some that expressly mention killings and executions by other means.

Very difficult to understand how 6 millions could have been victims of an undocumented extermination plan. Fare question, isn't it? at least if you compare it with what we have for the --also secret-- soviet massacres in Katyn, were "just" 4.000 or 20.000 poles were killed. For that we do have skulls with bullets, all kinds of remains, forensics, photos, graves, documents, etc.

In my opinion, the history of homicidal gas chambers has the same ingredients as the fat soap legend. Sooner or later historians will get the real facts, but legal and personal harassment and prosecution is a clear attempt to frighten scholars and block further critical investigations.

Robert86 said...

Hi Holowiz,

I fully endorse open skepticism about anything, but the banal attitude and historical denial of many of these so-called "revisionists" who refute many things about the Holocaust for thinly veiled political or Anti-Semetic purposes is what disgusts me.

As for the gas chambers (which where one part of the Holocaust), their existence has been proven many times over. Their purpose is easily seen when one reads the primary source documents concerning their construction and use at these camps.

Do the research and it is plain to see. It helps to know the evolution of the extermination program beginning with the T4 program. The consequences of that euthanasia program was why the Nazi leadership where so secretive about the exterminations at the camps in Poland.

Holowiz said...

After some research I found out that the gas chambers existence hasn't "been proven many times over" as you say, at least until Pressac published his (not conclusive) "criminal traces" just few years ago. That's my opinion so far of course.

I agree that The Holocaust is so politicized now that it's almost impossible to have a free open debate about it. An that is not because of the revisionist side as I see it.

Roberto Muehlenkamp said...

>After some research I found out >that the gas chambers existence >hasn't "been proven many times >over" as you say, at least until >Pressac published his (not >conclusive) "criminal traces" >just few years ago. That's my >opinion so far of course.

Eyewitness testimonies alone leave no room for reasonable doubt already, especially those provided in court at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial and other trials before West German courts. What Pressac did was to further corroborate these testimonies by matching their contents with documentary evidence.

>I agree that The Holocaust is so >politicized now that it's almost >impossible to have a free open >debate about it.

Actually there are online forums where you can have a free and open debate about the Holocaust, most notably the RODOH forum under

>An that is not because of the >revisionist side as I see it.

Actually politics are brought in by two sides, one being folks like Elie Wiesel and entities like the SWC, who try to mistify and/or instrumentalize the Holocaust, and the other being the ideologically motivated propagandists who call themselves "Revisionists" and whose stance has nothing to do with revisionism. In between there are people who are genuinely interested in the historical facts, such as the contributors of this blog.

korinta said...

I agree that The Holocaust is so politicized now that it's almost impossible to have a free open debate about it..
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Unknown said...

Everyone knows that VNN is probably one of the vilest sites on the Internet..The people there believe the Holocaust never happened, but openly talk about how they wish it had happened..
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