Sunday, September 24, 2006

Troglodyte

The Ugly Voice, that is. Only a primitive creature could provide us with such pearls of wisdom as:
Joredog: The fact that your grandmother survived is proof that it wasn't a death camp.
(Really? How does that logically follow?)

Read more!

forum.codoh.com

You know you won't get deleted there.
(A forum where anti-"revisionist" postings are routinely censored and deleted, and where most effective anti-deniers are banned? "You won't get deleted there"? Devious liar or... a primitive creature.)
Arthur Butz page 229 and 230:
One of the first victims was Richard Baer, successor to Höss and last commandant of Auschwitz, who was arrested on December 20, 1960, near Hamburg, where he was working as a lumberjack. He was imprisoned and interrogated in prison and insisted that the Auschwitz gas chambers were a myth. Unfortunately, he did not live to take this position in court, because he died in prison on June 17, 1963, at the age of 51 apparently from a circulatory ailment, although his wife considered his death rather mysterious.
And this is kind of how it works: Baer had a lawyer, Baer was interrogated, but he said Auschwitz was a myth. Where are the interrogation transcripts? Where are any of his statements. There's nothing. I've never heard of anyone having any piece of writing from Baer whatsoever, yet he was in jail for 3 years. Maybe in the sources Butz references there's "something."
(That's how denial works - one troglodyte quotes another troglodyte, taking it all on pure faith. No matter that Baer was Auschwitz I commandant in 1944, when, indeed, there was no gas chamber in that camp. No matter that his pre-trial interrogations are publicly available (e.g., on Frankfurt Trial DVD). No matter that Baer never denied the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz complex, but rather correctly stated that he, as a commandant of the main camp in 1944, had nothing to do with gassings, because gassings were performed in Birkenau (22.12.1960):
Ich bin nur Lagerkommandant im Lager Auschwitz I gewesen. Mit den Teillagern, in denen Vergasungen stattfanden, hatte ich nichts zu tun. Ich habe auch keinen Einfluss auf die Vergasungen selbst gehabt. Die Vergasungen fanden im Lager II statt. Dieses Lager unterstand nicht mir, sondern dem Hauptsturmfuehrer Kramer. Er war zu meiner Zeit Kommandant des Lagers II.
Forget all that. Better let's dream up the story about a brave commandant who was murdered for refusing to repeat the myths. This is much more fun for us, troglodytes!)
Richard Baer. Commandant at Auschwitz spoke out. Three years in jail denying it happened until his mysterious death right before the Auschwitz trial. In all my research, I've never seen a piece of his writing.
(Which just goes on to show how much troglodytes' "research" is worth. They can't even google.)
And finally:
The reason the models look different is because everyone is lying and they can't get their story straight.
Simplistic thinking of a small, primitive mind. When such thinking is elevated to the level of dogma, we get the distortion of reality like that, which Ugly Voice produces in his clip no. 29 [YouTube version] which will be examined in more detail later. For now let me point out that the Ugly Voice deceptively accuses Alexander Donat of fabrication. He compares the 1944 English edition of Wiernik's testimony to the version published by Donat, and finds that they look different:
[English 1944:] It turned out that we were building ten additional gas-chambers, more spacious than the old ones with a capacity of about 150 square feet. As many as 1,000 to 1,200 persons could be crowded into one gas-chamber.
[Donat:] It turned out that we were building ten additional gas chambers, more spacious than the old ones, 7 by 7 meters or about 50 square meters. As many as 1,000 to 1,200 persons could be crowded into one gas chamber.
Troglodyte concludes:
So Donat is taking the liberty to more than triple the square feet of the chamber.
And how would a true skeptic reason? First of all, which version should a priori be closer to the original? The one that uses meters, not feet, of course. Could the publisher of the English edition have gotten something wrong, and published the wrong calculation? And how can we check that? Of course, checking the Polish original is the best solution, and we're working on that. Meanwhile, there are workarounds.
Let's look at Mattogno and Graf's Treblinka book, to which the Ugly Voice refers repeatedly. Mattogno quotes document USSR-344, which is dated December 29, 1945:
Witness Wiernik, who was employed as a master carpenter during all of his stay at the camp and had relative freedom of movement, gives the following dimensions of the chamber: in the small building 5 × 5 m, in the large 7 × 7 m.
Soooo... perhaps Wiernik was claiming 7x7 meters all along? Andrew supplied me with the Yiddish 1944 edition of Wiernik's memoir, so I also looked that up there. Not knowing Yiddish, Arabic numerals were my clues. And voila, on page 24:



It wouldn't be that difficult for the Ugly Voice to check this information and not to make a filthy, libellous accusation against Alexander Donat. But then again, that's the difference between a mind of a critical thinker and a mind of a troglodyte.

9 comments:

JPSlovjanski said...

If someone survives something, it naturally follows that nobody could have died in the event in question.


So....

Nobody died on the Titanic, the Hindenburg, at Stalingrad, 9-11, etc.

Kiwiwriter said...

>If someone survives something, it naturally follows that nobody could have died in the event in question.


So....

Nobody died on the Titanic, the Hindenburg, at Stalingrad, 9-11, etc.

Quite right there.


How do we know the Titanic, the Hindenburg, Stalingrad, and Hurricane Katrina really happened?

I say the moon landing isn't the fraud...there really isn't a moon!

104839sobe104839 said...

Wow....shows how desperate denierbud is to make people believe that this is a hoax....sobe

JPSlovjanski said...

I live in the Moscow area now and all these monuments and books say there was a big battle in the area. Yet I haven't seen any burnt out tanks or bullet holes or anything. Plus I hear many people survived that battle.

CLEARLY it didn't happen! More Soviet propaganda!

Kiwiwriter said...

>I live in the Moscow area now and all these monuments and books say there was a big battle in the area. Yet I haven't seen any burnt out tanks or bullet holes or anything. Plus I hear many people survived that battle.

CLEARLY it didn't happen! More Soviet propaganda!

Tuesday, September

You know, I used to live in a city with the World Trade Center towers. They're not there any more. The only proof I have of them coming down are in the vast amounts of documents on the subject, news of the disaster, eyewitness accounts, and trials after the fact....maybe there never was a World Trade Center!

It was just a hologram!

Anonymous said...

Troglodytes??? Someone can easily name plenty more troglodytes of history: the resistance fighters of WWII, Ann Frank, Irgun in Israel, the objectors to Stalin’s, Franko’s, Pinochet’s and Saddam’s regimes (just to name a few), or the people who resisted Papal Dogma in the middle ages.

Let alone that those troglodytes, as Hilberg put it “… engaged historians in new research …and to go further into the comprehension of what has taken place.” The same troglodytes that made mainstream historians drop the soap myth, revise the diesel engine story, reduce camp death numbers, and admit that the gas chamber shown to tourists at Auschwitz I is a “reconstruction” and the Dachau one a fake [see Irving vs Lipstadt trial]. And on and on.

If you don’t want people to be ‘troglodytes’ you can make some sincere effort to lift the taboo and fear that surrounds the subject, unless of course you think that the fear and ridicule is critical to the survival of the story.

I am glad that you are violating Deborah Lipstadt’s aphorism “deniers should not be debated but they should be exposed”. Ask anyone who grew up in a totalitarian state and he will tell you how familiar they are with that phrase.

Sergey Romanov said...

Of course, silly "t.s.road" doesn't deal at all with what I wrote in the posting above. In fact, he is a great example of a troglodyte.

E.g., he writes:

"The same troglodytes that made mainstream historians drop the soap myth,"

- never showing that most historians ever took it seriously at all, and that the alleged "dropping" was caused by deniers stepping on their toes;

"revise the diesel engine story,"

- this hasn't happened so far, although this, while a semi-fair point, actually disproves "t.s.road"'s contention - Fritz Berg is an obvious troglodyte (one needs only to read his alt.revisionism and RODOH postings); of course, the diesel issue was always not even a minor, but a minuscule point - and it still is.

"reduce camp death numbers,"

- never happened;

- "and admit that the gas chamber shown to tourists at Auschwitz I is a “reconstruction”"

- "t.s.road" hasn't shown that it wasn't "admitted" before;

- "and the Dachau one a fake [see Irving vs Lipstadt trial].

A pure lie of part of "t.s.road".

"And on and on."

Yes, and on and on. So, just another troglodyte proving my point. (YAWN)

Teacher Edgar said...

Why is it that you guys keep on wasting your energy with this affair?

If you can't tolerate other person's beliefs, you become what you are judging.

Personally, after reading and researching I got to realize that there isn't an absolut truth. Both possitions are extremist and intolerant. The very first thing you are condemning!

Sergey Romanov said...

Wha?..