Today I sent Kevin the following e-mail in response to his "thank you" (the links were not embedded, I have embedded them in this copy so they are clickable on the blog):
Thank you too, Kevin. Your moderation was even-handed and your questions were very good.
Unfortunately the time was too short to address all the claims made by Mr. "Dalton" during the first hour. Therefore, and as you seem to have a genuine interest in the subject, I sent you some links via Skype for further information.
The first link, Old Herrings in a New Can: Thomas Dalton’s Debating the Holocaust (1) , contains my overall assessment of the author's agenda based on the two chapters of his book that are available online. As I said during the interview, I don't think that Mr. "Dalton" entered as a neutral observer and came out as a "Revisionist". He was a "Revisionist" from the start and inevitably reached the conclusions predetermined by his "Revisionist" position. Reading further into his book during the weekend only reinforced this assessment.
The second link, The Korherr Report, contains my translation of the Korherr Report, a 1943 progress report on the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" prepared by Himmler's own statistician Richard Korherr, which is not even mentioned in "Debating the Holocaust". Korherr's postwar claims that he didn't know what he was writing about are addressed in my blog under Richard "I didn’t know" Korherr.
The first postwar demographic assessments pointing to a Jewish population loss in the order of 6 million, which I also mentioned, can be found under Report, "Statistics on Jewish Casualties During Axis Domination", Institute of Jewish Affairs, World Jewish Congress, June 1945 Records of the World Jewish Congress, Jacob Rader Marcus Center of the American Jewish Archives and Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry. Unless there is something in parts of DTH that I haven't read yet, "Dalton" ignored both of these assessments. (Population loss doesn't mean that all were murdered, of course. In the Soviet Union, for instance, there were about 300,000 Jews who died in the ranks of the Red Army or as civilians due to war-related causes.)
Goebbels' diary entry of 13 December 1941 regarding Hitler's meeting with the highest party officials on 12 December 1941 is quoted in an article by German historian Christian Gerlach that is transcribed under Gerlach's article on the Wannsee conference. Gerlach's translation of this entry is the following:
Regarding the Jewish question, the Fuhrer is determined to clear the table. He warned the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction. Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews.We should have sympathy rather with our own German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives.
The same article also contains a partial translation of what Hans Frank, the governor of the Polish territories occupied by Germany, said in his speech of 16 December 1942:
As for the Jews, well, I can tell you quite frankly that one way or another we have to put an end to them. The Fuhrer once put it this way: if the combined forces of Judaism should again succeed in unleashing a world war, that would mean the end of the Jews in Europe. . . . I urge you: Stand together with me . . . on this idea at least: Save your sympathy for the German people alone. Dont waste it on anyone else in the world, . . . As a veteran National Socialist I also have to say this: if the Jews in Europe should survive this war, . . . then the war would be only a partial success. As far as the Jews are concerned, I would therefore be guided by the basic expectation that they are going to disappear. They have to be gotten rid of. At present I am involved in discussions aimed at having them moved away to the east. In January there is going to be an important meeting in Berlin to discuss this question. I am going to send State Secretary Dr. Buhler to this meeting. It is scheduled to take place in the offices of the RSHA in the presence of Obergruppenfuhrer Heydrich. Whatever its outcome, a great Jewish emigration will commence. But what is going to happen to these Jews? Do you imagine there will be settlement villages for them in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told: Why are you making all this trouble for us? There is nothing we can do with them here in the Ostland or in the Reich Commissariat. Liquidate them yourselves! . . . For us too the Jews are incredibly destructive eaters. . . . Here are 3.5 million Jews that we cant shoot, we cant poison. But there are some things we can do, and one way or another these measures will successfully lead to a liquidation. They are related to the measures under discussion with the Reich. . . . Where and how this will all take place will be a matter for offices that we will have to establish and operate here. I will report to you on their operation at the appropriate time.
In a blog under Goebbels on the Jews, Part 1, Mr. "Dalton" quoted only this part of Frank's speech:
What is to happen to the Jews [after evacuation]? … We have in the General Government an estimated 2.5 million Jews—perhaps with those closely related to Jews and what goes with it, now 3.5 million Jews. We can’t shoot these 3.5 million Jews, we can’t poison them…
and argued that Frank was "obviously" unaware of any program of genocide. As I said in the interview, he left out the interesting parts.
Gerlach's article further contains a translation of the passage from the protocol of the Wannsee Conference on 20 January 1942 that I mentioned in the interview:
In the course of the final solution, the Jews should be brought in an appropriate manner and under appropriate direction to work in the east. In large detachments, with the sexes separated, the Jews who are able to work will construct roads in these regions. It is to be expected that a sizable number will disappear due to natural causes. The Jews who survive, however many there may be, will no doubt be the hardiest. They will have to be treated accordingly. Otherwise these select few, should they escape, could form the basis for a new Jewish line of descent. (See the experience of history.)
Regarding Goebbels' diary entry of 27 March 1942 I sent you the link Goebbels on liquidation, which links to a German clip about the Soviet Katyn massacre in which "liquidated" is also used in an unequivocally homicidal sense.
Regarding mobile killing operations by Einsatzgruppen and other units, I sent you the permalink Series:That's why it is denial, not revisionism., which leads to several articles discussing related issues including the accuracy of the Einsatzgruppen reports as concerns the numbers they reported. Also of interest in this context, as concerns the matching of Soviet reports with evidence independent of the Soviets, are the blogs Mass Graves in the Polesie and Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies ….
I further sent you these links regarding physical evidence at the extermination camps Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka:
Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research
Mass Graves at Sobibor – 10th Update
Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure …
You may want to compare the translation from examining judge Lukakskiewicz' site investigation report of 13.11.1945 in the last of these blogs with the parts thereof that are quoted on page 118 of DTH. You will find that "Dalton" again left out the interesting parts.
The permalink leads to my long discussion with Carlo Mattogno about the Belzec mass graves and the logistical and issues of body disposal at Belzec. Needless to say, the conclusions reached there also apply to the Sobibor and Treblinka, and to Chelmno as well. Carlo Mattogno is arguably the most capable "Revisionist" writer, which is why rebutting him is one of our priorities at HC. Mr. "Dalton" is not so important as he essentially draws on the arguments of Mattogno and other "Revisionists". However, his somewhat-less-than-accurate references to some of my articles in DTH come in handy for a summary of the conclusions as concerns burial capacity and burning of corpses that I reached in my discussion with Mattogno.
We write a lot about mass graves on HC. If you click the label "graves" at the bottom of any of the articles under the above three links, you'll find all of our work that has been labeled accordingly under graves.
The Hungarian Jews murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau in the summer of 1944, another issue that Mr. "Dalton" talked about yesterday, are the subject of the blog The number of Hungarian Jews gassed upon arrival at Auschwitz. I haven't yet looked at the arguments regarding logistical feasibility in DTH, but logistical feasibility is addressed in the 1993 edition of Jean-Claude Pressac's Les Crematoires d'Auschwitz, of which I have the Portuguese translation. Pressac concludes that the SS at Auschwitz-Birkenau could within 70 days kill and dispose of up to 300,000 persons, using at four liquidation sites eight teams of Sonderkommando, four working during the day and four working at night, with a total of one thousand workers. Recent research shows that the number of Hungarian Jews killed at AB was closer to 300,000 than to 400,000, and they didn't have to gas and burn them all on the day of arrival because they had the holding camp known as "Mexiko" for keeping arrivals meant for the gas chambers until the existing capacities made it possible to "process" them. Mr. "Dalton"'s argument that Auschwitz-Birkenau killed below capacity before the summer of 1944 is defensible but irrelevant - after all the Nazis couldn't kill people at Auschwitz-Birkenau any faster than they managed to get them there, and organizing and carrying out the transports from various European countries, rather than the killing itself, was their big problem. Under Deportations to Auschwitz, 1942 to 1944 - Long Form you'll find a long list of transports to Auschwitz-Birkenau, put together by my fellow blogger Dr. Nick Terry, a British historian.
The diesel issue that Mr. "Dalton" mentioned at the end of his hour is addressed in the blog Why the "diesel issue" is irrelevant, which I also sent you per skye and which contains a discussion about this issue in the comments section between Mr. "Dalton" and me. The corpse discoloration issue, which is not as linear as Mr. "Dalton" presented it in his interview (even with gasoline exhaust the people in the gas chambers may simply have suffocated from lack of oxygen before they could die of carbon monoxide poisoning, which would explain the "blue" color mentioned by some eyewitnesses, the pink-red discoloration of fatal carbon monoxide poisoning only shows some time after death and thus not necessarily when eyewitnesses observed the corpses inside the gas chambers, and it doesn't occur at all or not very prominently when people are suffering from anemia or other conditions induced by malnutrition) have been amply discussed on the RODOH forum, last on the thead DEMJANJUK: Scapegoat for Jewish Madness starting with my post 11805. On that thread you'll have the pleasure of meeting one of the "Revisionists" eulogized by "Dalton" as writers of "serious, dedicated works", Mr. Friedrich Paul Berg.
One of the issues that interests me most is the one that you brought up right at the beginning of your interview with Mr. "Dalton", that of non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder. I have written several articles about this comparatively unknown issue, which you can reach under the link non-Jewish victims. You may be particularly interested in my articles about the 5-million-figure, which you find under 5 million non-Jewish victims? (Part 1) and 5 million non-Jewish victims? (Part 2).
I hope you'll get something out of our articles. For any questions you may have please feel free to contact me.
All the best,
Apparently Mr. "Dalton" also sent Kevin a message, which Kevin will publish on his blog together with my above message.
Could this be the beginning of the debate I invited Mr. "Dalton" to?
PS: As I just realized when listening to the record of Kevin Barrett's interview with Andrew Mathis and me, I forgot to mention Andrew's article The Ugly Voice on Zionism By Way of Burning Synagogues in my above-quoted e-mail to Kevin. Andrew referred to this article during the interview.
I am not exactly a fan of these types of "conspiracy theorists" over at American Freedom Radio, especially the 9/11 "Truth" movement. Kevin talks about the overwhelming empiracal evidence that 9/11 was a false flag operation by the US gov't. Now I am open to the idea but I also think it is far fetched. Not exactly impressed with the "Truth" movement but you never know.ReplyDelete
I still salute you and Andrew Mathis doing this . . . taking on the "revisionists" on the streets along the internet superhighway. Something that many "professional" intellecutals do not want to do. I don't blame them but if there is no opposing this crap on the web then the street credentials of denial may just be enough to cause a resurgent Neo-Nazi movement. I mean remember the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? Yeah so did Hitler.
I just did something I don't usually do, which was to remove three posts with links to glamour girl sites.ReplyDelete
Nothing in principle against glamour girl sites provided that the models are over 18, they just don't belong here.
Robert86, I'm impressed that you remain open-minded about 9/11 despite the antics of a number of individuals within the truth movement who do much to discredit it. Because Barrett has a PhD, has edited a fairly respectable book and has published two others few have read, and has run for Congress he has been regarded by the media as a truth movement leader.ReplyDelete
Every time he gets a mainstream microphone he plays the "kooky truther" role to the hilt. Last summer on 50,000 watt KDKA radio Barrett characterized the holocaust as "toasting 6 million Jews", said it was a lesser crime than the invasion of Poland, and while holding himself out as an expert in international law, falsely claimed that all those executed at Nuremberg had been convicted of aggressive war.
Last fall, Barrett absurdly claimed on Russia Today that Larry Silverstein had confessed that he'd blown up World Trade Center 7, and he claimed that Silverstein somehow gained profits of $20 billion from the destruction of the World Trade Center (how he managed this from a $6 billion insurance payout I don't know).
Please do not let kooks like Barrett and the Pilots for Truth and 9/11 con artists like the Citizen Investigation Team and William Rodriguez distract you from the true issues of 9/11:
1. Of 300 questions the Jersey Widows submitted to the 9/11 Commission, only 27 were adequately answered
2. The $20 million report on the destruction of the World Trade Center is incomplete. By stopping the report at the moment of collapse initiation, its authors avoided discussing the collapse itself and thus sidestepped almost all of the mysteries, including
a) speed, "essentially in free fall" according to NIST, in apparent violation of the 1st law of thermodynamics
b) symmetry and totality
c) complete pulverization of 180,000 tons of concrete
d) presence of molten iron in the debris
Folks, this is not the place to chat about 9/11 matters. The subject matter of this blog spot is what its title says it is. Please take this into account and continue your conversation somewhere else.ReplyDelete
Its complete Chutzpah to use the Korherr report to support extermination. In the short version it has the following:ReplyDelete
" Die Ver-
minderung des Judentums in Europa dürfte damit bereits an
4 Millionen Köpfe betragen. Höhere Judenbestände zählen auf
dem europ. Kontinent (neben Rußland mit etwa 4 Mill.) nur noch
Ungarn (750 000) und Rumänien (302 000), vielleicht noch
"High Jewish numbers counted in the European continent (besides Russia with around 4 million) now only Hungary 750000 and Rumania 302 000, perhaps also France."
What a strange coincidence, the Germans announce a large forced emigration program and 4 million Jews turn up in Russia.
For discussion of littlegrey's objections see the comments section of the blog Thomas Dalton responds to Roberto Muehlenkamp and Andrew Mathis (2).ReplyDelete