In his post of Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:02 , after complaining about
Not one single email over the weekend from any jew / holocaustian offering to pledge a single penny to pay Kola so he can publish his report on his alleged Sobibor findings.
(obviously people have better things to do over the weekend than try to dance as Gerdes whistles), Gerdes comes up with a new "idea":
If any one of the holocaust controversies freaks can prove that Belzecs grave #10, the largest of all the alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly found at Belzec by Kola himself, contains the remains of just 6,000 jews, I will pledge $5,000.00 myself to Kola's Sobibor report fund. They have till the end of this month and the "proof" has to be posted here or on VNN.
Now how hard should that be?
Well, that depends on what Gerdes would accept as proof. If he is satisfied with a reasonable estimate taking into account the known evidence, it's not too hard indeed. All it takes is knowledge of the evidence plus a little common sense and arithmetic.
Belzec grave # 10 is described as follows in Prof. Andrzej Kola’s book BEŁŻEC The Nazi Camp for Jews in the Light of Archaeological Sources, quoted in Part 3 of my article Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research:
The grave pit No 10 (Fig 27).
One of the biggest graves, in bottom view of a rectangular shape with the size of about 24,00 x 18,00 m. Situated in the north-central part of ha XV, basing on 16 deep drills (No 482-490, 494, 496-499, 501, 520); in some neighbourhood, much more shallow drills (with the ground bottom of about 1,50 m) crematory remains were reported. The grave was very deep (the drills in particular places were stopped at the depth of 4,25 to 5,20 m, because of bodies in wax-fat transformation and underground waters presence). One drill (No 483) at the depth of 4,40 m revealed the appearance of several cm layer of white sand mixed with rich lime. Over body layers there were some levels of crematory remains mixed with charcoal in turn with layers of sandy soil (20 cm). The edge parts of the pit are filled shallow, to the depth of about 1,50 m, probably because of getting some soil to make next layers between the bodies. That fact caused widening of the grave which was filled with next body remains. The estimated volume of the grave amounts about 2100 m3.
The total estimated volume of the 33 mass graves at Belzec is 21,310 cubic meters – room enough, according to the considerations in Section 4.1 of my Mattogno-Belzec article, to bury the corpses of over 434,000 people, known through documentary evidence to have been transported to Belzec and through documentary and eyewitness evidence to have been murdered there, before the mass graves were emptied and the corpses were burned. If Prof. Kola's team managed to identify all mass graves of the Belzec extermination camp during the archaeological investigations conducted between 1997 and 1999, this means that the 434,508 people known to have been transported to Belzec minus a handful of survivors were buried in these 21,310 cubic meters of mass grave before the general exhumation and burning of the bodies started. A mass grave with a volume of 2,100 cubic meters would thus have contained almost one-tenth of the total of corpses, roughly 42,800 of them.
Between November 1942 and March 1943, the bodies were removed from the mass graves and burned at first one and then two fireplaces – see the testimony of former SS-man Heinrich Gley, quoted in Section 4.2 of my Mattogno-Belzec article. The ash, bone fragments and other partial remains left over by cremation were returned to the mass graves, where they were found by Prof. Kola's team decades later – insofar as they had not been projected to the surface and scattered by subsequent leveling of and robbery digging in the area. On page 20 of his Belzec book, Prof. Kola wrote the following:
The excavations proved many layers of body ashes mixed with sand in turn, which indicated that the pits were used in many stages, each time covered with a new sand layer. One can suppose that the ashes filled the pits completely, and only a very thin layer of surface soil was used as a cover. Therefore during the camp closing in 1943 year and levelling works taken up at that time, as well as robbery digs around the camp area directly after the war, the most part of body ashes was placed over the surface, and even now the presence of burnt bodies' traces is quite clear in the surface structures, particularly in the western and northern part of the camp. In those very parts the zone of graves was located.
Assuming that the cremation remains of two-thirds of the 434,500 people murdered at Belzec were brought to the surface and scattered during the dismantling of the camp and posterior robbery digging, the remains of about 144,800 people would still be inside the graves. Assuming that the backfilling of the graves with cremation remains by the SS was done evenly and every mass grave thus received an amount of such remains more or less corresponding to the amount of bodies that had once been buried in it, this would mean that grave # 10, with almost 10 % of the total burial volume, still contains the remains of about 14,270 human beings – more than twice the number required by Gerdes.
Another way of estimating the contents of grave # 10 is to consider the height of the layers of human remains found therein, according to the above-quoted description of this grave in Kola's book. While there’s no information about the thickness of the layer of corpses in wax-fat transformation inside this grave – on page 20 of his book, Kola wrote that in some graves "the layer of corpses reached the thickness of ca 2,00"), the description suggests that the grave contains several layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal", alternating at intervals of 20 cm with "layers of sandy soil".
A layer of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" 20 cm thick would, considering the area of the mass grave (24 x 18 = 432 square meters), have a volume of 432 x 0.20 = 86.40 cubic meters. In Section 4.5 of my Mattogno-Belzec article, I calculated that the cremation of 434,000 people would leave the following volume of human and wood ashes, according to data from cremation experiments conducted by Carlo Mattogno:
Therefore – and this, as pointed out, is a maximum calculation knowingly based on exaggerated assumptions regarding the weight of the corpses to be incinerated – the victims’ ash and the wood ash together would have taken up 1,519 + 3,574 = 5,093 or 1,519 + 7,148 = 8,667 cubic meters of volume, i.e. less than 24 % or less than 41 % of the grave volume of 21,310 cubic meters.
Human ashes would thus make up at least 17.53 % (1,519 ÷ 8,667) and at most 29.83 % (1,519 ÷ 5,093) of the mass of human plus wood ashes. Applied to 86.40 cubic meters of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal", this means that each such layer in Belzec grave # 10 contains at least 15.14 cubic meters, but possibly as much as 25.77cubic meters, of "crematory remains". 15.14 cubic meters of human ashes, according to Mattogno’s calculations used in Section 4.5 of my Mattogno-Belzec article, correspond to 7.57 tons of the same, which in turn correspond to a life or pre-cremation weight of 151,43 tons or 151,430 kilograms. Assuming – as I did in my aforementioned article – an average of 35 kg of pre-cremation weight per dead body, this would correspond to 151,430 ÷ 35 = 4,327 dead bodies. Assuming, as Mattogno did, an exaggerated average (considering that the Jews deported to Belzec were mostly women and children) of 45 kg of pre-cremation weight per dead body, we would have the remains of 3,365 people in each 20 cm layer of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" in Belzec grave # 10. Assuming a ridiculously unrealistic 60 kg per dead body, the amount of human ashes in such layer would still correspond to 2,524 dead bodies. If the proportion of human ashes was 29.93 %, the respective numbers would be 7,363 (35 kg), 5,726 (45 kg) and 4,295 (60 kg) bodies per layer.
How many such layers are inside grave # 10 we do not know, but even if the soil cover on top of the grave were two meters thick (which is unlikely, as Kola reports having found crematory remains in drills only 1.50 meters deep "in some neighbourhood") and bodies in wax-fat transformation or layers of "white sand mixed with rich lime" started at a depth of 4 meters (actually bodies in wax-fat transformation were encountered at 4.25 meters in some parts of the grave while sand and lime was found at 4.40 meters in others), the two meters in between would still contain 5 layers of 20 cm each containing "crematory remains mixed with charcoal", alternated with 5 equally thick layers of sand. This would mean that grave # 10 contains the remains of the following number of human beings, not counting the bodies in wax-fat transformation at the bottom of the grave:
a) Assuming 15.14 cubic meters of human ashes in each layer containing 86.40 cubic meters of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" and 5 such layers
• At average body weight of 35 kg: 5 x 4,327 = 21,633 bodies
• At average body weight of 45 kg: 5 x 3,365 = 16,826 bodies
• At average body weight of 60 kg: 5 x 2,524 = 12,619 bodies
b) Assuming 25.77 cubic meters of human ashes in each layer containing 86.40 cubic meters of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" and 5 such layers
• At average body weight of 35 kg: 5 x 7,363 = 36,813 bodies
• At average body weight of 45 kg: 5 x 5,726 = 28,632 bodies
• At average body weight of 60 kg: 5 x 4,295 = 21,474 bodies
The minimum number of dead bodies that these calculations turn out is 12,619, more than double the number Gerdes wants to see proven. That's assuming an average pre-cremation weight of 60 kg per body, which is ridiculously exaggerated considering that deportees to Belzec were mostly malnourished women and children from miserable Polish ghettos. And it only considers the layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" mentioned by Prof. Kola, not the bodies in wax-fat transformation at the bottom of grave # 10.
This means that, if Gerdes were reasonably prepared to accept reasonable, evidence-backed estimates like the above as proof that Belzec grave # 10 contains human remains corresponding to at least 6,000 dead bodies, he should now go about making good his pledge to donate $5,000.00 to "Kola's Sobibor report fund".
If, on the other hand, what Gerdes wants to see is a physical quantification of human remains contained in grave # 10 at Belzec and an expert's confirmation that the remains so quantified correspond to at least 6,000 human bodies, his requirements are at least very difficult to meet. For they would imply the following:
i) Excavating this mass grave (something that Prof. Kola did not do due to considerations of respect for the dead he had to comply with, see Part 1 of my Mattogno-Belzec article),
ii) Extracting the layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" contained therein,
iii) Separating the crematory remains from the charcoal,
iv) Establishing the weight and volume of the crematory remains thus separated and
v) Having an expert provide an assessment of the number of human bodies to which these crematory remains correspond.
First of all, it is unlikely that anyone will obtain permission to excavate any of the Belzec mass graves, already because the area has been turned into an elaborate memorial.
Second, even if excavations were to be authorized, despite the disturbances of the memorial area they would presumably imply, long and arduous archaeological work would be required to remove the aforementioned layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" from the mass grave.
Third, once the layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" had been extracted from the grave, how would one separate the charcoal from the crematory remains in a manner that allows for accurately quantifying the latter? I strongly doubt that this is possible. But maybe Gerdes can tell us how he would do it.
Fourth, assuming that the crematory remains can be separated from the charcoal in a manner allowing for reliably quantifying the crematory remains, could an expert in matters of cremation accurately establish to how many human beings these remains belonged? One doesn’t have to be a cremation expert to realize that this is impossible, considering the variables involved, and that the most an expert can provide is an estimate based on assumptions that, however reasonable and realisitic they may be, cannot be empirically confirmed.
So if Gerdes were only to accept as proof an exact physical quantification in the sense described above, he would be asking for something that is very hard if not impossible to accomplish.
This, in turn, would make his "pledge" into yet another of Gerdes fraudulent publicity stunts, and the derisive howling in his CODOH post Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:02 pm:
Remember, grave #10 contains 10% of all the volume of the alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly found at Belzec, so according to Kola's findings, it should contain the remains of at least 60,000 jews.
Isn't it funny how Kolas own alleged "evidence" for the alleged "huge mass graves" of Belzec is so fraudulent, that it can't even be used to help him raise $5,000.00 so he will release / publish his alleged Sobibor "evidence" of "huge mass graves?"
OH THE IRONY! Ha ha ha!!!
Or are the holocaust controversies freaks going to prove me wrong?
You've got til the end of the month boys - get cracking.
Ya just gotta laugh.
a particularly instructive example of idiocy and dishonesty even by Gerdian standards.
So which of them is it, Mr. Gerdes?
Will you accept a reasonable, evidence-backed estimate, like those presented above, as proof that Belzec grave # 10 contains the remains of at least 6,000 dead people?
If so, better go get your money.
Or will you require a precise physical quantification that, for the reasons described above, is very difficult if not impossible to accomplish?
If so, thanks a lot for once more exposing your utter fraudulence..
In his next post on the same CODOH thread, written on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:57 pm Gerdes vents his anger at my previous article on this blog – without, of course, giving his CODOH buddies the link to that article.
The following remark in that article (emphasis added):
Contrary to what quote-mining Gerdes apparently tries to make believe, I'm in no hurry to see the results of archaeological work at Sobibor, be it Prof. Kola's 2001 investigation, the investigation currently under way by the Sobibor Archaeology Project, or both. A good thing takes time, as a German saying goes. And the longer loonies like Gerdes suffer in anticipation of what is coming at them (hence presumably Gerdes' professed impatience), the better.
If Gerdes is "sick and tired of waiting", that's his problem, and it's up to him how he solves it.
must have made him especially angry, for he quotes it in his post – without the parts highlighted above, of course.
He then claims that this is a "strange response" for "someone who has accepted THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALEGNE". Actually there’s nothing "strange" about refusing to play the errand boy for a retard who tries to mask his fear of archaeological research conducted or under way at Sobibor behind phony "I’ll pay for it (if you get me this and this and that and that)" – bravado and self-projecting invective ("It looks like the dull one is very very afraid of what's happening to him. The cornered rat now claims he really isn't interested in putting an end to holocaust denial. This is what he wrote on his hysterical creeps blog"). It’s what any man with a minimum of self-respect and common sense would do.
Apparently unaware of what a fool he is making of himself, Gerdes repeats what he demanded the contributors of HC to do as a condition for him to try solving Prof. Kola’s apparent funding problems:
So here is what the freaks have come up with so far:
1 - The name of the Polish government entity that allegedly commissioned Kola's work:
* The Council for Protection of Memory of the Battle and Martyrdom in Warsaw. (Good job boys!)
2 - Proof that this alleged entity commissioned his work.
* NO proof yet - go figure.
3 - Proof that this entity owes Kola any money.
* NO proof yet - go figure.
4 - The amount of money this entity allegedly owes to kola.
* No amount yet - go figure.
5 - A contact person who speaks English in this alleged Polish government entity.
* No contact person yet - go figure
6 - Contact information for Kola.
They posted some contact information (Good job boys!), but what I really need is Kola's direct email address (Get cracking dull one.)
And I will need the following from Kola:
7 - The amount that he claims he is allegedly owed.
8 - Proof of said claim.
9 - A pledge that he will release this phantom report that he is allegedly "sitting on" immediately after he gets his money.
Quite a list of things to do for people who don't speak the Polish language, and that over the weekend and, what is more, for no purpose other than trying to put an end to the nail-biting anxiety of a loony who can no longer bear waiting for the Sword of Damocles that will sooner or later fall on his head, in the form of Prof. Kola's report about his investigations at Sobibor in 2001 or a similar report by the Sobibor Archaeological Project.
To the fellow’s foaming-at-the-mouth question at the end of this post:
It looks like the HC freaks are just blowing smoke when they say that they want to put an end to holocaust denial. BTW, how much money would each of you freaks like to pledge?
my personal answer is: as little as possible, already because I don’t have much. And exposing the misery of Holocaust denial, as far as I'm concerned, is less a matter of money than of knowledge, common sense and patience – of which I think I have enough. Organizations with lots of money have contributed comparatively little to fighting Holocaust denial, as I see it. Individuals with modest financial means like myself, on the other hand, have contributed a lot.