Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Who Created The 'Hoax'? Inquiring Minds Would Like To Know

Over at The Phora, playground of demented young pseudo-intellectual racialist fruitloops the world over, one of the few sane people still in possession of their marbles asks a salient question of the assembled horde of 'Revisionists':

Who created the 'Holohoax' they like talking about so much?

Cue much earnest rumination and cud-chewing from the bovine herd of deniers, much passing of gas and very little enlightenment.

Since discussing these things with internet Nazis is like talking to a brick wall, I'll give you Sulla the Dictator's questions and responses and you can fill in the blanks. Believe me, it makes much more sense that way...

Read more...

Here is how Sulla began:
What shadowy group is responsible for creating this 'myth', and then KEEPING IT IN PLACE like Opus Dei in the Da Vinci Code, "Revisionists" of the Phora? I would like to discuss this specific issue, gentlemen. Now that you have a forum dedicated to this...business...we can afford to discuss these subjects individually rather than the whole topic in single threads.

Cue the first shambling jellymonster attack, and the rest is internet history, in both senses of the term:

I'm sure that there are those on this board who are 'on the fence', as it were, regarding the Holocaust. I'm also certain that THIS question, in particular, is one they would like answered. The massive conspiracy to INVENT a historical event and then catalogue it in such detail is unprecedented in human history. So I'm sure that they are very curious about the details of this. Certainly there must be an answer.
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So the Jews, is that your answer?
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So a Jewish reporter, the New York times, and the lawyers of 'several Jewish organizations' are responsible for fabricating the Holocaust, forcing the governments of Britain, France, the United States, the USSR, and the rest of Europe to falsify evidence, plant bodies, and fabricate documents?
And then this Jewish reporter, the New York Times, and the lawyers of 'several Jewish organizations' created a shadowy unit of enforcers to KEEP the governments of Britain, France, the United States, the USSR, and the rest of Europe in compliance with this fabrication, as well as penetrating academia to force them to go along with it as well?
Are you sure this is the best you can do?
BTW, this is NOT a thread about "The Holocaust didn't happen". This is a thread about who supposedly is responsible for 'making it up' and keeping it as "orthodox history". Don't tell me thats the best you can do.
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This doesn't address the question that I'm sure 'everyone on the fence' about this issue would like answered. Who made it up?
The genocide of European Jews certainly existed in HISTORY before 1967, Tom, and had an influence in both American and European politics in the shadow it cast over the far right on both continents. This is not an issue for this thread, however.
I'm curious where this diabloical scheme was hatched, and who carried it out.
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You would agree that what you just described has no bearing on the events happening between 1939 and 1947, correct?
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Ok George, thats great. And in some other thread, I'm sure that will be an answer to SOME question. But that isn't the answer to mine, in this thread. I would like to know WHO fabricated the Holocaust, and who ordered them to do it, and how they went about it. I'd be happy to hear your theories on that. So far, we've got a Jewish reporter, a Beltway paper, and a dozen lawyers.
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Its hardly a strawman, since I didn't direct the question at you. There are:
1) People who DO subscribe to a conspiracy theory
2) Such people on this board
3) posts by NeoNietzsche in this thread making the argument
Your statement implied that you had some objection. I would like to clarify the matter. You don't SEEM to have an objection, or atleast, you don't seem to be interesting in stating it. Therefore I assume you don't believe that there was any fabrication of the Holocaust. Correct?
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Who are you, again?
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Thats interesting. Now lets see if you can grasp this. The Holocaust is not a story we read in books of fiction or see on stage or watch in movies, 'a tale woven by storytellers or entertainers'. Its a topic taught in universities, studied by scholars, written about by historians, and serves as an example to governments.
If it happened (Which most people know it did), then thats all well and good. If it DID NOT HAPPEN, then its a bit beyond the realm of "Fiddler on the Roof", George. The purpose of this thread, then, is to identify those people who FABRICATED the 'exaggerations' that we're studying in academia, not the 'dramatics' of the Pianist. This isn't a critique of film making. Its a view at those parties responsible for taking what you suggest are exaggerations and then manufacturing evidence which support them.
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Why would anyone forge a document if they believe an event happened? How does a Soviet and an American forge thousands of documents "on their own" which just happen to serve as evidence for the same exact crime, and indeed, indict specific people on specific charges?
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Great. Thats fine. Thanks.
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Well then, we come to the original question. Who ordered the fabrication of the evidence that they DID that very thing, in the way you dismissively describe, who fabricated it, and who continues to force others to lie about that being very real?
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Why would they fabricate things about gas chambers? They could have said that 6 million were simply shot.
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Who ordered these lies? Then who fabricated the evidence which supports them as fact? Then who forces historians to continue to regard them as fact?
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Now THATS more like it! THATS what I've been expecting to see!
Now are the NWO and the Illuminati the same organization, and are they composed of Jews?
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Ok. Well here's the problem with that, George. They're academics. An academic who is handed a piece of fake evidence doesn't say "I'm a Jew, I better support this fake evidence". He investigates it, because thats his job. Careers are built on that type of historical discovery. You've said that there is no conspiracy. So then you would have us believe that ON THEIR OWN, the academic community are passing on falsehoods and exaggerations.
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Your theory seems to be that Jews (Who you seem to think are the only people allowed in academia) operate off of a Hive Mind, instead of a conspiracy like Illusion believes.
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Well if you read about the Holocaust, you would know that its not a series of pictures of shoes.
But maybe you'd like to explain how a 'skilled storyteller' has to spin a German document saying they've killed such and such amount of Jews, or another that says their goal is to kill such and such amount of Jews.
That needs spinning? Or is it true?
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You believe that there is a group of people who conspire to fabricate evidence and enforce its teaching, 60 years after the end of WWII?
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Well yeah it does Tom, because we have evidence. And that evidence is either true, or its fabricated. Which is the point of this thread. That doesn't have anything to do with 'spinning' a thing. The Wanssee Protocol is either real or it isn't. It can't be 'spun'.
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Ask who?
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Wait a second, didn't you claim that there was no conspiracy to fabricate the Holocaust in the 1940s? Now there was, huh?
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Actually Illusion, fabricating stamps is a bit different than fabricating millions of documents. A stamp, or a coin, or a dollar, or a document, are different areas of specialty. So no, I don't think people who forge stamps are capable of forging documents of any quality.
But ok, we finally have an answer as to who is actually doing the dirty work!
Those members of the Allies who were forging stamps were sent to the field to forge millions of records. Because if you can forge stamps, you can forge ANYTHING. Thats really interesting. I can't wait until we get to the illumanti.
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Oh so its a mystery, to boot. Well done Dan Brown.
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I don't know if you're just completely unfamiliar with the material and thus making an honest mistake, or if you're just deliberately lying. The West has never believed that the Germans were responsible for the Katyn massacre. The Western Allies REFUSED to allow that to be entered as a charge for the German warcriminals at Nuremberg. Two US investigations on the subject in 1944 (!) and several British intelligence reports confirmed that the Soviets were responsible. I invite you to QUOTE A HISTORIAN that isn't a Soviet citizen who says the Germans were responsible for Katyn.
In 1952 the US Congress had a public hearing on the subject, and concluded that the Soviets were responsible. So no, this was never 'debunked' since it was never part of the history of the Holocaust. German atrocities in the field, by the way, are not usually considered a part of the Holocaust. Otherwise we'd be throwing Malmedy into the mix, which we're not.
Furthermore, saying that a gas chamber is a reconstruction is not 'propaganda'. Also, no one was ever charged with steam chambers, and I'd like you to source reference to them in historical texts teaching about the Holocaust, and not just eye witness testimony from Polish partisans looking at gas chambers in a Polish winter and mistaking heat or gas for steam....as they watch from the forest.
Finally, you just disproved your case, even though you're absolutely wrong about everything you said. If this Orthodox Templar Illuminati New World Order imposed this 'story', why are these charges allowed to be 'overturned' (Even though they never existed)?
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What are you babbling about? No serious person considers the Nazis innocent of the crimes they were charged with NOW.
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Holocaust Deniers can't stand scrutiny, or people arguing with them. Thats why they belong in little echo chambers like "Revisionist Forum", where they moderate or ban anyone who argues with their stupid little lies.
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Ok. I'll happily LIST the people who you say are responsible:
1. The House of Rothschild
2. The Middle Temple of London
3. The Illuminati, AKA, the Templars
I'm more than happy to nominate Illusion to be THE SOLE representative of Holocaust Denial on this board. Do any Holocaust deniers take exception to his theory of events?
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What does this have to do with the Illuminati, the NWO, the Secret Jewish Overlords, or any other of the hobgoblins you and your little friends believe in?
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Yes, I have one. In the middle of your bizzare rant, why didn't you take any time to discuss the issue of this thread? This thread isn't about your silly theories on the Holocaust. This is about who faked it. And it isn't about laughable (Insane) broad strokes, either, such as "The Jews" or "England". Its about hard tacks. Organizations or government officials who ordered it, individuals or units who forged documents, and then organizations, individuals, or units which are forcing people to teach it now.
I've noticed that you folks seem utterly incapable of answering these questions, with the exception of Illusion, who fingers the Illuminati.
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Can you be more specific?
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So Dan, do you buy into either of our two theories for who 'invented' the Holocaust? So far its the Illuminati, the Templars, and the Rothschilds versus the New York times and a dozen Jewish lawyers. Do you subscribe to either of these theories or do you have your own?
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I'm sorry, I just can't discuss this illuminati/templar/freemason business. I just can't take it seriously. So we'll just accept that as a theory for the reader to consider.


N.B. it took 11 'revisionists' and 'sceptics' to reach this conclusion. This, after one accuses the entirety of academic of possessing a Hive Mind...

If you really insist on wading through the conspiracy theories, click through to read the thread in full).

5 comments:

Xcalibur said...

I should have taken Nick's advice and not linked over there to read the full thread... I now have an astounding headache...

Anonymous said...

The answer is simple. In August
1942 British radio broadcast tales
of steamings and then diesel
killings at Treblinka as part of
a black propaganda campaign.

The Soviets picked up the story and
expanded on it, creating the
Ugly Myth (a more accurate name
than "Hoax")
Basically, the Soviets and
British claimed that the National
Socialists wanted to conquer the
World and kill everyone who
was not Blond and Blue-eyed.
The Ugly Myth was that the
Nazis made soap of humans,
had baby bonfires, and killed
everybody.
The Soviets held the first
Showtrial regarding Majdanek
Camp in November 1944 even before
the War ended.
The Soviets and British
propagandists were clever enough
to use real places, policies,
and people to create the Ugly
Myth (with a dose of lurid
sex, tales of gold, and perversions
thrown in).
The simpliest example of the
Ugly Myth was the Majdanek Showtrial. At the 1944 trial
the Soviets alleged the Germans
had a policy of gassing Poles
and Soviets. They proved that
over 1.5 million people were
murdered by the Germans at Majdanek
in 6 gas chambers. (based on eye
witnesses and "confessions" of
captured Germans.

The Ugly Myth of Majdanek was
slowly reduced over the years
settling down to somewhere
between 250-360,000 victims.
However, 60 years late, the
the Majdanek Museum in Poland dropped the number of killed from 360,000 people killed
to 78,000 people missing. See: http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/new/index.php?tryb=news_big&language=EN&id=879


Majdanek was a horrible place
where tens of thousands died but
Soviet propaganda exaggerated the
deaths by 2000 percent.

Finally, the Ugly Myth has become
the horrible reality, 60 years later.

whodareswings said...

Surely Elie Wiesel is one person we all know who helped create and continues to enforce myths about himself and the Holocaust.

"....A sixth version of events at the liberation of Buchenwald was concocted by Wiesel in 1989 when a black filmmaker and a Jewish producer were trying to create a new myth, namely, that a black unit, the 761st Tank Battalion, had actually liberated the Jews at Buchenwald. Their intention was to increase black and Jewish mutual “understanding” in Brooklyn through a movie to be shown on PBS called Liberators. For the benefit of the NYT, which gave serious coverage to this far-fetched story, Wiesel conjured up a brand new memory that he had never mentioned before: “I will always remember with love a big black soldier. He was crying like a child—tears of all the pain in the world and all the rage. Everyone who was there that day will forever feel a sentiment of gratitude to the American soldiers who liberated us.”He made this statement despite the fact that there were no blacks present at the liberation of Buchenwald on April 11, 1945, and the black unit in question was over 50 miles away on that date. After a gala preview screening of the movie in Harlem, it was gradually revealed that the film’s thesis was a hoax. Thus, it was never released. Jeffrey Goldberg, among others, denounced this media fabrication that the NYT had so strongly supported. Yet, Wiesel repeated this true lie in his autobiography: “I will never forget the American soldiers and the horror that could be read in their faces. I will especially remember one black sergeant, a muscled giant, who wept tears of impotent rage and shame, shame for the human species, when he saw us. He spewed curses that on his lips became holy words. We tried to lift him onto our shoulders to show our gratitude, but we didn’t have the strength. We were too weak to even applaud him.” In Wiesel’s patronizing and essentially racist view of the world, blacks are portrayed as physically strong but inarticulate. They can only spit out obscenities. Amazingly, even though the story was known to be false, he later incorporated it into his lecture routine, as needed."

From "Elie Wiesel and the Catholics"
by David O'connell

The rest of a thorough expose of this lacrimose fraudster is archived at CULTURE WARS here:
http://www.culturewars.com/2004/Wiesel.htm
The author is a professor of French at an American university.

Sergey Romanov said...

No. Historians have no use for Wiesel. And the story you quoted is not even about the Holocaust.

So "Wiesel" is not the answer to Nick's question. Not even a part of the answer.

Anonymous said...

"The answer is simple. In August
1942 British radio broadcast tales
of steamings and then diesel
killings at Treblinka as part of
a black propaganda campaign.

The Soviets picked up the story and
expanded on it, creating the
Ugly Myth (a more accurate name
than "Hoax")" So even though you have no evidence of your "British black propaganda" radio campaign,(as far as I know) You're telling us that the Soviets are just going to "pick up" on it? So they could later give Israel money? Wow. Weak. Tell me, (most probably) UV, what evidence is there that the Soviets partially reconstructed the gas chambers at Auschwitz and at Madjanek? I thought so. From Sobe108439