tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post5482277396467740465..comments2024-03-29T02:19:32.860+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: "The Tide is Turning" Nicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-6542795841736027112020-07-29T21:47:04.583+01:002020-07-29T21:47:04.583+01:00I think this topic deserves and update or a follow...I think this topic deserves and update or a follow-up articleGabihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07712750358743399545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-84989114301765797062014-06-11T21:35:33.980+01:002014-06-11T21:35:33.980+01:00" Ronobi said... Friday, June 06, 2014 8:19:0...<i>" Ronobi said... Friday, June 06, 2014 8:19:00 am"<br /><br />"I think hardly anyone shares such views publicly, it's on social media like YouTube or posting book reviews and comments such as at Amazon that Holocaust deniers are in abundance."</i><br /><br />That's true. Also on imageboard sites such a 4chan and its derivatives some of which are very racist and antisemitic and make me feel like taking a shower after viewing them. Naturally, they're anonymous so posters from countries where it is illegal to engage in Holocaust denial can freely do so anonymously (not that I'm in favor of the laws).<br /><br /><i>"It's not merely about denial of the Holocaust, either, but also talk about Allied war crimes, not merely concerning an individual basis, but alleged policy."</i><br /><br />True, and not everyone reads <i>Slaughterhouse-five</i> which they should. The problem is they tend to overinflate the death toll at places like Dresden in an attempt at making the allies "just as bad".<br /><br />I tend to think that some of those who engage in Holocaust denial do so because of poor initial education on the subject. When I went to school, there was just a minor mention of Ann Frank and a page or two devoted to Auschwitz (I think we watched a film as well). I knew little to nothing of the other camps such as Treblinka, Bełżec, Sobibór, Chełmno, ect. and forget about things like the Einsatzgruppen, I didn't know about that until about 3 or 4 years ago. Auschwitz seems to get the most attention which I understand why, but I would chalk this up to budget and time constrains of most modern public schools rather than on the material that's out there. Education on the subject definitely could be better, though.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065634464176841507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-16395935368045340462014-06-06T08:19:43.875+01:002014-06-06T08:19:43.875+01:00I think hardly anyone shares such views publicly, ...I think hardly anyone shares such views publicly, it's on social media like YouTube or posting book reviews and comments such as at Amazon that Holocaust deniers are in abundance.<br /><br />It's not merely about denial of the Holocaust, either, but also talk about Allied war crimes, not merely concerning an individual basis, but alleged policy.Ronobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15685760716825534415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-35237851323553615912014-06-01T09:34:18.271+01:002014-06-01T09:34:18.271+01:00I think one of the problems with a medium like the...I think one of the problems with a medium like the Internet is it really allows for an echo chamber to amplify. Holocaust denial was always a fringe movement often relegated to Usenet newsgroups such as alt.revisionism, and it's still the case today, although I would argue that Holocaust denial material is more accessible to a wider audience today than during the Usenet days where one had to be somewhat technically inclined to participate in. The proportion of people who deal in Holocaust denial and the rest of the Internet's population is probably the same, however, of course some more people are delving into Holocaust denial since there are more people on the Internet today than there were in 1995, hence why some people might perceive that Holocaust denial is gaining ground, when actually it's remained more or less the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-36648207061295931582014-05-20T14:30:47.772+01:002014-05-20T14:30:47.772+01:00The problem is rather that only two categories are...The problem is rather that only two categories are given. The category "The Holocaust is a myth" could mean a lot of things. It could include anything actually - the gas chambers, the persecution, the deportation. Most people who are doubtful to the Holocaust don't deny that Jews were persecuted, and in fact, I can't remember ever hearing or seeing a Holocaust doubter who thought the Jews were never sent to camps. Add to that the fact that you risk losing your job, being socially stigmatized or persecuted by the state in nearly all Western countries for "holocaust denial" or "hate speech" and it doesn't become very surprising that so few people ended up in this category (the survey was conducted with interviews).<br /><br />That more people are sceptical in the Middle East and North Africa is a rather obvious consequence of the fact that you don't have institutions like the ADL, Hate Speech-laws and Holocaust-documentaries running every week there, don't you think? Additionally, Jewish crimes have had a much wider impact on the Muslim world, wrt. Israel, and so they are probably more naturally inclined to be sceptical of Jews and anything that is Jewish.<br /><br />My comment did not champion the presence of antisemites in the world; it was merely an obervation of the fact that the survey makers have a different conclusion than you, and that, insofar as holocaust denial is correlated with antisemitism, I think they are probably right in their worries. "the tide is turning" simply means that history is repeating itself.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-57127565671532652482014-05-20T13:53:01.556+01:002014-05-20T13:53:01.556+01:00The Atlantic does take a different view than mine ...The Atlantic does take a different view than mine as to the report. The biggest difference is their conflation of those who suggest the death numbers are exaggerated as "deniers," when I think this is a much more open category.<br /><br />Also, the Atlantic focuses on results from the Middle East and North Africa. I am much more interested in the survey data from 'The West,' as that is clearly the home and target audience of the contemporary HD movement. Clearly, the movement has failed in these regions, and I don't think it can take much credit for North Africa and the Middle East, either. <br /><br />Your other comments, disgustingly championing the presence of antisemites in the world, really do not require any statement. As shown by Mark Weber, HD is no longer a useful tool for modern antisemitism; it is a stale genre that is bound for the dust heap even for such loonies.Jason Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00315463581646057876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-7919048003611127092014-05-20T02:25:06.603+01:002014-05-20T02:25:06.603+01:00It's funny how articles about this survey alwa...It's funny how articles about this survey always have widely different conclusions. For instance, this article concludes that "The World Is Full of Holocaust Deniers": http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/<br /><br />I guess it all depends on how you read the numbers and what you want to achieve with them. Sometimes the Jews are victims of an ever-increasing spiral of Anti-Semitism. In other regards, Anti-Semites are a tiny minority that shouldn't be bothered with.<br /><br />When I click on that link, I'm told with capital letters that 1 billion people harbor Anti-Semitic attitudes. That's one quarter of the total number surveyed. In that sense, the tide is indeed turning.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.com