tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post4630308136552132793..comments2024-03-17T20:28:40.281+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: German Footage of a Homicidal Gassing with Engine Exhaust. Part 6: Forgery AllegationNicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-43645144956216821812016-09-26T10:37:01.876+01:002016-09-26T10:37:01.876+01:00Ok, that was actually interesting, thanks for the ...Ok, that was actually interesting, thanks for the link. One fake less (later misuse notwithstanding).Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-50816002791864434152016-09-26T10:05:22.210+01:002016-09-26T10:05:22.210+01:00I'll take a look, but it's not like I made...I'll take a look, but it's not like I made it up, this info is from a mainstream source. I'm always glad to be properly corrected though.<br /><br />Of course my point remains untouched if your nitpick is true.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-51566624026980286492016-09-25T21:09:39.118+01:002016-09-25T21:09:39.118+01:00SR >>>> In this sense the DEFA hypothe...SR >>>> In this sense the DEFA hypothesis was much more reasonable, if one doubted the authenticity. DEFA was at least caught faking things needlessly (the Buchenwald photo).<br /><br /><br />Wrong, again. <br /><br />Those photo<b>s</b> were taken by Willem Hoogwerf in April 1945 using an American camera. A captured SS-man was forced by US troops to pose in the scene and was later shot. One of the photos was published in Belgian newspaper Volksgazet in October 1950, and in the mid-1950s a copy was sent to FDR prosecutors preparing to try Martin Sommer by a former prisoner group who claimed it was taken secretly during the war and depicted Sommer torturing prisoners.<br /><br />See the article on the Buchenwald photo archives in the proceedings of the June 2010 Conference of Thuringian Archivists:<br />http://www.homepage-nico-thom.de/Archive_in_Thueringen.pdf<br />The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-11432337249991597292016-09-15T18:26:00.287+01:002016-09-15T18:26:00.287+01:00``> The point stands: If Nebe was filming the g...``> The point stands: If Nebe was filming the gassing he would have filmed the first attempt as he could not have known that it would fail.``<br /><br />Have you a crystal ball? One thing about you charlatans that I have never got my head around is how you assume that a certain historical individual would have done it `this way`or `that way`. It is a shocking display of arrogance and hollow idiocy. <br />Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03218089864137630577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-48394326670757109222016-09-15T12:25:55.316+01:002016-09-15T12:25:55.316+01:00Hey Holocaust deniers, you're looking stupid n...Hey Holocaust deniers, you're looking stupid now. <br />Kurt Franz who was one of the top the Nazi SS guards in charge of Treblinka admits to the gassing and mass murder of the Jews at Treblinka. <br />http://www.jta.org/1964/10/23/archive/commandant-of-treblinka-camp-admits-giving-orders-to-gas-jews<br />Commandant of Treblinka Camp Admits Giving Orders to Gas Jews<br />October 23, 1964Dan Kelsohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01237572020458648454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-75496498512944030972016-09-09T19:07:51.008+01:002016-09-09T19:07:51.008+01:00KL Vershiedene refers to Jonny Hargis' inabili...KL Vershiedene refers to Jonny Hargis' inability to recognize basic German words while pontificating on German documents' authenticity.<br /><br />Whereas even Gerlach himself confused certain parts of the Mogilev and Minsk actions ("in Mogilew Tötungsversuche mittels Gas und Sprengstoff vornehmen") - even while decrying that other historians do so ("Die Aktionen in Minsk und Mogilew werden in der Literatur weithin verwechselt und zu einer einzigen vermengt")!<br /><br />Doing so in an offhand comment on a blog is hardly a mortal sin, esp. when one admits one's mistake.<br /><br />Widely off the mark. As is usual for the Bunny.<br /><br />In fact, if anyone resembles Jonny Hargis in their inability to comprehend simple texts, it's the Bunny, who numerous times has been shown to fail basic comprehension.<br /><br />See his comments at:<br /><br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/carlo-mattogno-failed-dragon-slayer.html<br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/06/mattognos-bunkers-conspiracy-theory.html<br /><br /><br />Not to mention his infamous, hilarious Buchenwald photo fail!<br /><br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-denier-logic-at-its-finest-famous.htmlSergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-64310874861722104152016-09-09T18:51:01.474+01:002016-09-09T18:51:01.474+01:00> The point stands: If Nebe was filming the gas...> The point stands: If Nebe was filming the gassing he would have filmed the first attempt as he could not have known that it would fail.<br /><br />Um, no. To repeat: you have no idea of what Nebe would or would not have filmed for certain. Not only you're trying to play mind-reading, you're trying to practice it on dead people too.<br /><br />The above statement is nothing but your speculation, without knowing the specific immediate circumstances that surrounded the creation of this footage or the footage's creator at the time, whether Nebe or anyone else. So you have no idea when the idea to film came to the creator, whether there had been any filming attempts that failed, whether the first test was filmed after all but did not survive even 1941 for whatever reason, technical, authorial (like simply dismissing the film stock) or otherwise, etc. etc. etc.<br /><br />IOW: pointless speculation in order to muddy the waters but adding no new knowledge.<br /><br />As for Amburger, I transcribed the gassing description and this particular phrase. You can be sure that if Amburger claimed anything about filming actions, you would have seen it in the article, since this would have been a direct confirmation. As far as I recall, Amburger implied that Nebe filmed mundane things (like peasants). As such, this is relevant to the point about professionalism, as well as Nebe's general familiarity with filming.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-62679256307632519652016-09-09T17:51:48.398+01:002016-09-09T17:51:48.398+01:00BR >>> Nebe's wouldn't have known...<br />BR >>> Nebe's wouldn't have known the first attempt was going to fail, so he would have filmed it.<br />SR >>> You wouldn't have a first idea what Nebe would or would not have filmed.<br /><br />But I do. Let me remind you of what your colleague proposed:<br /><br />Hans >>> Nebe also seems to have had some affinity to such kind of footage, as he supposedly showed the Euthanasia film Dasein ohne Leben to hundreds of SS officers.<br /><br />Hans >>> the rather "friendly" atmosphere on the footage, which makes sense for a German Euthanasia propaganda clip<br /><br />Hans >>> It is entirely possible that the documentation of the gassing Nebe had to report to Himmler/Heydrich was considered sufficiently approved according to the practice at the time.<br /><br />The point stands: If Nebe was filming the gassing he would have filmed the first attempt as he could not have known that it would fail.<br /><br /><br /><br />SR >>> Amburger never said that Nebe liked to film *actions*. And films of generic Russian peasants not only wouldn't have been of much interest, they wouldn't have likely been hidden along the "criminal" footage in the first place. Try to use some common sense next time.<br /><br />I did request that Hans quote what von Amburger said to his American interrogators about Nebe's penchant for filming. Hans implied he didn't transcribe the context of von Amburger's second comment: "...wie schon erwähnt filmte er gern..." ["didn't note the ellepsis, so don't ask"]. After a subsequent comment from yourself I asked politely that you quote the context of his original remark "Nebe filmte gerne"; you refused to do so.<br /><br />You two aren't singing from the same hymn sheet on whether you possess a copy or just notes of von Aumburger's 1945 statement, nor about what von Amburger said Nebe liked to film.<br /><br />_______________________<br /><br /><br />NT - I'm curious as to how I "relied" on Beer when I referenced Gerlach - the muddling-up of Novinki and Mogilev stems from reading his footnotes on the Kindle edition far too quickly, rather than walking to the bookshelf to look up my print copy. <br /><br />Excellent. You are promoted to Kommandant of <a href="https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=71150#p71150" rel="nofollow">KL Verschiedene</a> with immediate effect.<br /><br />Whatever, Dr. Nick; I've learnt not to waste time with you or Hannover whilst you defend—in a remarkably similar fashion—dodgy claims about some text saying or indicating something that it patently doesn't.<br /><br />The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-68434350081476984322016-09-09T07:54:46.059+01:002016-09-09T07:54:46.059+01:00Confusing the Mogilev and Minsk actions in some wa...Confusing the Mogilev and Minsk actions in some way is a perennial curse among most people touching the topic. <br /><br />Interestingly, the Minsk action left some physical traces in the building used for the gassing, which help to sort out the witness testimonies.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-71693513212916688722016-09-09T07:31:27.036+01:002016-09-09T07:31:27.036+01:00> Another argument against your interpretations...> Another argument against your interpretations A & B is that fact that there's no known footage of the attempt to gas the patients with the car alone. The judgment states that although the van was already in position prior to the first attempt its exhaust wasn't connected to the building until after that failed. Nebe's wouldn't have known the first attempt was going to fail, so he would have filmed it.<br /><br />You wouldn't have a first idea what Nebe would or would not have filmed.<br /><br />> SR tells us von Aumburger informed his American interrogators that Nebe liked to film things on when he was chief of EG B. As he wasn't present for the Belorussian lunatic asylum gassings, von Aumburger must have witnessed his boss filming other actions. Only the Mogilev footage was reportedly found by Goldschimdt. Maybe the Kripo or the Gestapo found all his other movies, or maybe Schulberg lost them as well.<br /><br />Amburger never said that Nebe liked to film *actions*. And films of generic Russian peasants not only wouldn't have been of much interest, they wouldn't have likely been hidden along the "criminal" footage in the first place. Try to use some common sense next time.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-58729569013990836912016-09-09T01:43:43.952+01:002016-09-09T01:43:43.952+01:00BRoI: you're well over a week behind Hans poin...BRoI: you're well over a week behind Hans pointing out my mistake privately, before the latest post went up.<br /><br />I'm curious as to how I "relied" on Beer when I referenced Gerlach - the muddling-up of Novinki and Mogilev stems from reading his footnotes on the Kindle edition far too quickly, rather than walking to the bookshelf to look up my print copy. <br /><br />Winkler and Hohendorf in Beitraege 26 cite Soviet sources sent to the DDR for the Georg Frentzel trial that date from 1944 (the original ChGK investigation) and... 1948. Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-72437371293917660702016-09-08T23:27:37.848+01:002016-09-08T23:27:37.848+01:00NT>>>> "The Mogilev gassing was c...NT>>>> "The Mogilev gassing was certainly discussed at the Minsk trial of January 1946 (see Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde, Ch 10.4 note 75),"<br /><br />okay....<br /><br />"<i>75. Aussagen Akimowa in Ebbinghaus/Preissler, S. 90; in Inhalt und Datum übereinstimmend mit Schreiben Dr. Ellinghaus an die Finanzverwaltung der Stadtverwaltung Minsk v. 5. 11. 1941, ZStA Minsk 370–1–141a, Bl. 125. Daraus ist zu schließen, daß Akimowa bei ihren Vernehmungen eigene Aufzeichnungen oder Akten von 1941 zur Verfügung standen.</i>"<br /><br />Nothing whatsoever to do Mogilev gassing.<br /><br />But I see how you failed. You relied on Beer's article in which he claims <i>"The incident just described</i> [Widmann on the Mogilev test gassing] <i>is also reported in the deposition by the Russian doctor N.N. Akimova of 18th November 1946, who gives as date of the experiment the 18th September [footnote 37].</i>"<br /><br />Beer's wrong; Dr. Akimova was head of the Novinki asylum near Minsk and was describing a different set of gassings in a different location.<br /><br />Thanks for the misinformation.<br /><br /><br /><br />The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-83957521274026495072016-09-08T22:09:33.224+01:002016-09-08T22:09:33.224+01:00As Hans said, Nebe wasn't initially suspected ...As Hans said, Nebe wasn't initially suspected of being involved in the plot. After Graf von Helldorf was arrested on 24 July, Nebe faked his suicide by leaving his clothes and wallet on the beach at Wannsee.<br /><br />The Manchester Guardian reported on 04.08.44 that the previous night German radio had offered a 50,000RM reward for news of his whereabouts, advising that he may have been attacked, or, due to gland trouble, might be wandering around aimlessly using the name Freidrich Schwarz. Even the Guardian—who'd never previously heard of him—figured he was probably connected with the bomb plot because 3 days earlier German radio announced a £50,000 reward for Karl Goerdeler "for conspiring against the life of the Fuhrer".<br /><br />SR tells us von Aumburger informed his American interrogators that Nebe liked to film things on when he was chief of EG B. As he wasn't present for the Belorussian lunatic asylum gassings, von Aumburger must have witnessed his boss filming other actions. Only the Mogilev footage was reportedly found by Goldschimdt. Maybe the Kripo or the Gestapo found all his other movies, or maybe Schulberg lost them as well.<br /><br />Hans mocks the Gestapo's alleged "thorough search" of Nebe's house by citing a series of magazine articles that don't mention any searches of Nebe's house, but only the two searches of his wife's house in Joachimsthal and one of Frick's home in Motzen.<br /><br />Hans: <i>"Wehner recollects that the Gestapo man leading the manhunt "did nothing" himself to find Nebe</i> [...]"<br /><br />Nebe's wife was held in custody for 8 months, including at Dachau, and repeatedly interrogated. Adelheid Gobbin's gave up Nebe's hiding place after the Gestapo's Willy Litzenberg threatened her with prosecution for involvement in the bomb plot. So it actually appears that "the Gestapo man leading the manhunt" made considerable efforts to locate Nebe.<br /><br />Hans: "<i>There is no indication that the police or the Gestapo confiscated anything from Nebe's house or waded through his private stuff.</i>"<br /><br />This extremely peripheral matter doesn't appear to be covered in the published literature; however, the Gestapo case file should be checked by anyone wanting to draw conclusions on the searches conducted at Nebe's home. The Kripo may have just been searching for a missing man, but the Gestapo were also after any information about the plot and further conspirators. Documents and such in Nebe's house would have been of interest to them.The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-29382012182100242002016-09-08T22:06:26.788+01:002016-09-08T22:06:26.788+01:00Hans,
The judgment of Widmann's trial states ...Hans,<br /><br />The judgment of Widmann's trial states that Hans Schmidt's car was used in the gassing; it says that his driver Alfred Bauer manoeuvred it into place and Schmidt connected its exhaust to the room. When the patients were inside the gas chamber, Bauer turned on the car's engine and then left the vehicle [JuNSV 26:562-3]. Schmidt denied that he recognised the registration of the car during his 18 December 1959 interrogation. You didn't tell us what Bauer said about the car in the stills, but then you didn't tell us anything he said about the Mogilev gassing aside from he thought it happened on a Monday; although you did let on that his testimony is also problematic to your interpretations A & B.<br /><br />It's possible Nebe used a different car in a subsequent gassing immediately following the KTI/RKPA team's departure, but it would be a little strange if he opted again for the van-car combo on a later date, because on Thursday 18 September 1941 he is supposed to have perfected the two truck method that was used to gas the insane at the Novinki asylum near Minsk. [See: Gerlach, Failure of Plans [...] pp.64-5; ESC Report 38: Minsk; Dr. Akimova's testimony in Aussonderung und Tod, p.88-91].<br /><br />The Widmann trial judgment says the KTI/RKPA test gassing took place on a Tuesday, but it also says it was a Tuesday two days earlier, so C.F. Rüter et al. noted "Richtig wohl: Donnerstag" [p.562]. If it was a Thursday, it must have been the 4th or 11th of September if Dr. Akimova's dating of the Minsk gassings is correct; Gerlach believes it is because she must of had notes.<br /><br />Another argument against your interpretations A & B is that fact that there's no known footage of the attempt to gas the patients with the car alone. The judgment states that although the van was already in position prior to the first attempt its exhaust wasn't connected to the building until after that failed. Nebe's wouldn't have known the first attempt was going to fail, so he would have filmed it. The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-30892944248784480242016-09-08T17:57:09.977+01:002016-09-08T17:57:09.977+01:00Michael Mills: "What I found missing from thi...Michael Mills: "What I found missing from this analysis was a discussion of the reasons why this experimental gassing at Mogilev was carried out. Was it just to find a quick and easy means of clearing out Soviet hospitals to make them available for use by the Wehrmacht? Or was there a planned connection with the later use of the technology of gassing with vehicle exhaust in the mass killing of Jews at the well-known extermination centres?"<br /><br />The context would emerge more clearly from examining the Minsk experiment in tandem with Mogilev; this series is focused primarily on Mogilev so won't have the full context. <br /><br />Nebe summoned chemists from the KTI after Himmler's visit to Minsk in mid-August 1941; this is documented. The context also suggests that there was already strain on firing squad executioners, who were overwhelmingly engaged in murdering Jews in ever larger numbers. The experiments in Belarus, however, seem more focused on the murder of the mentally ill, and obviously using gas was already a method that had been applied in Poland (Sonderkommando Lange) as well as Germany/Austria (T4). Within weeks of the Mogilev experiment, the KTI was testing out gas vans at Sachsenhausen; the first vans were sent east by the end of the year. <br /><br />It would be surprising if Nebe wasn't thinking ahead, bearing in mind his unit had a bigger task (the escalating mass extermination of Jews), but witnesses involved in these actions seem rather tunnel-visioned, focusing on the action, and ignoring the bigger picture, with the exception of Bach-Zelewski's well known testimony.Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-54638472408849132932016-09-08T11:39:18.615+01:002016-09-08T11:39:18.615+01:00"planned connection" is hard to prove fo..."planned connection" is hard to prove for September 1941. Ian Kershaw's essay on Chelmno, "Improvised Genocide?", might be a good pointer to this phase. I think the answer to your question is "somewhere inbetween the two"; the experiment was aimed at wider use than mental patients but not yet clearly aimed at the numbers that were killed in Poland by gas.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-68359144642277299212016-09-07T06:21:53.200+01:002016-09-07T06:21:53.200+01:00It seems to me that all this hoo-haa about whether...It seems to me that all this hoo-haa about whether or not the film footage is genuine is essentially irrelevant, given that there can be no doubt that an experimental gassing of inmates of the Mogilev Psychiatric Hospital was carried out, and that it was followed by the further use of the gassing technology to kill Soviet mental patients on a relatively large scale.<br /><br />What I found missing from this analysis was a discussion of the reasons why this experimental gassing at Mogilev was carried out. Was it just to find a quick and easy means of clearing out Soviet hospitals to make them available for use by the Wehrmacht? Or was there a planned connection with the later use of the technology of gassing with vehicle exhaust in the mass killing of Jews at the well-known extermination centres?<br /><br />With regard to the question of why the Gestapo did not find the footage in Nebe's residence in 1944 during their search for him following his involvement in the Bomb Plot against Hitler, perhaps it should be looked at in the context of the theory that Himmler had prior knowledge of the plot but allowed it to proceed since the death of Hitler would remove the main obstacle to his ongoing attempts to negotiate a separate cessation of hostilities with the Western Allies. That theory rests on the surprising passivity of the SS in the immediate aftermath of the failed attempt on Hitler's life, leaving the coup in Berlin to be thwarted by the Wehrmacht itself under the leadership of Goebbels.<br /><br />According to that theory, one of the main concerns of Kaltenbrunner in managing the Gestapo investigation of the plot was to conceal any evidence of SS complicity, even if only passive. If the theory corresponds with historical reality, then it might explain any seeming reluctance of the Gestapo to conduct a proper search for Nebe, or to search his house thoroughly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920991497026980039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-50810218382793067792016-09-06T23:25:36.910+01:002016-09-06T23:25:36.910+01:00http://digital.zlb.de/viewer/image/15849352_1950/1...http://digital.zlb.de/viewer/image/15849352_1950/144/LOG_0007/Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-55724107095619767742016-09-06T13:00:25.146+01:002016-09-06T13:00:25.146+01:00Goldschmidt (Rudolf F.) is in the Amtliches Fernsp...Goldschmidt (Rudolf F.) is in the Amtliches Fernsprechbuch für Berlin (West), 1951 at Nebe's address. Previously at Kaiserdamm 111 from 1937 assuming it is the same guy.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-34177996801767126482016-09-06T12:33:46.483+01:002016-09-06T12:33:46.483+01:00The prisoners who co-operated with Schulberg are o...The prisoners who co-operated with Schulberg are on record, as of Sep 1945, notably Rode and Von Molo:<br /><br />http://lawcollections.library.cornell.edu/nuremberg/catalog/nur:02024Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-58938438797807818892016-09-06T07:15:33.702+01:002016-09-06T07:15:33.702+01:00There aren't any details, if you are thinking ...There aren't any details, if you are thinking of names, numbers or dates. Pretty much an offhand remark.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-57484897071110762632016-09-05T22:50:25.479+01:002016-09-05T22:50:25.479+01:00Thanks. Any chance you could post the full context...Thanks. Any chance you could post the full context of that statement too?<br /><br />I ask because Budd Schulberg is on record saying that his unit ordered any prisoners connected with filming be sent to them. The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-26047402688230214502016-09-05T22:11:52.361+01:002016-09-05T22:11:52.361+01:00"Wie schon erwähnt" is a reference to an..."Wie schon erwähnt" is a reference to an earlier sentence: "Nebe filmte gerne" (describing his activities on the occupied territories).Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-76379485537651736792016-09-05T21:49:16.428+01:002016-09-05T21:49:16.428+01:00Thanks, Hans.Thanks, Hans.The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-7225623931185708842016-09-05T21:22:41.372+01:002016-09-05T21:22:41.372+01:00Nebe drove a Horch according to von Amburger:
&qu...Nebe drove a Horch according to von Amburger:<br /><br />"Kenntnis erhielt ich durch Dr. Battista, mit dem ich zusammen in einem Zimmer lag. Battista fuhr eines Tages zusammen mit Nebe und Schulz und noch weiteren Personen die mir namentlich nicht in Erinnerung sind, ausgenommmen Dr. Widmann, in Richtung EK8. Dabei war der Horch des Nebe...Bei seiner Rückkehr am späten Abend erzählte mir Dr. Battista dass sie in der Nähe einer Irrenanstalt hoffnungslos Kranke durch Abgase eines laufenden Kraftwagenmotors getötet hätten. Die Leitung dieser Aktion hatte Dr. Widmann. Dr. Battista musste den Tod feststellen. Er beklagte sich bitter bei mir, dass er als Truppenarzt zu solch einer Aufgabe herangezgen wurde und wolte sich darauf zur Front melden...Der auf dem mir vorgelegten Lichtbild kann der Horch des Nebe sein gewesen sein, mit Bestimmheit kann ich das allerdings nicht behaupten. Das taktische Zeichen des LKW ist mir nicht bekannt."<br /><br />(interrogation of Andreas von Amburger of 3 April 1962 (BArch B162/3298, p. 144)Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.com