tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post2983961072243864753..comments2024-03-29T02:19:32.860+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Panagiotis Heliotis - The New Star Shining in the Revisionist Coffin? (With Added Comment on his Reply)Nicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-60881249742282835002018-08-29T17:21:11.764+01:002018-08-29T17:21:11.764+01:00There is a refutation of Harwood's book entitl...There is a refutation of Harwood's book entitled "Six Million Did Die" <br />written by Arthur Suzman and Denis Diamond in 1977. On bookfinder.com the <br />cheapest copy costs 10 euros (not including postage). The book could be <br />updated and expanded but it does describe some of the falsifications, <br />distortions and dishonest techniques of Harwood.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16056222846385544904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-81715717563359081302018-08-17T00:06:43.277+01:002018-08-17T00:06:43.277+01:00Not sure what you're trying to argue now, if y...Not sure what you're trying to argue now, if you accept 3.3 million Jews in Poland at the start of the war (September 1939). <br /><br />The demographics of emigration and immigration are fairly well researched, much better than in the 1950s when the IfZ report made an offhand guesstimate about 100,000 Jews emigrating from *Eastern Europe* as a whole (not just Poland).<br /><br />Here's a decent summary with some stats and sources<br />http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Population_and_Migration/Migration_since_World_War_I#id0ebwbi<br /><br />Emigration was much easier in the 1920s, e.g. 126,000 Jews from Poland arrived in the US in the early 1920s, before immigration acts imposed national quotas, whereas only 28,000 arrived from 1926-1937.Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-75787133199425853682018-08-16T22:07:41.211+01:002018-08-16T22:07:41.211+01:00Read the first paragraph on this page:
https://en...Read the first paragraph on this page:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_20th-century_Poland<br /><br />That is more representative of the demographic challenge when encountering this question of Polish Jews.<br /><br />If I were taking the Sanning position (which I obviously was NOT - given my listing) I'd have contended a ridiculously lower '41 Polish Jew population.blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-86421542709199966422018-08-16T21:50:46.567+01:002018-08-16T21:50:46.567+01:00I was moreso referring to the '20s actually. ...I was moreso referring to the '20s actually. I've written that the '41 population was 3.3 million - the same number as you. So what happened to Polish Jews before that date is of no concern to Holocaust numbers (same base number).blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-17171610278306495712018-08-16T21:28:10.979+01:002018-08-16T21:28:10.979+01:00The emigration issue is dealt with here:
https://...The emigration issue is dealt with here:<br /><br />https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/08/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-1.htmlJonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-77239034782866109732018-08-16T08:01:12.918+01:002018-08-16T08:01:12.918+01:00And further:
"The official Polish figures fo...And further:<br /><br />"The official Polish figures for the years 1931-1937 place total Jewish emigration at 109,716. These figures were published in 1940, before the Holocaust, so that Sanning could not claim they were "politically motivated". The figures also gave a breakdown as to which countries the Polish Jews immigrated.4 A Jewish emigration of the size claimed by the Institute would surely have been noticed. However, there is no mention of such a large scale emigration in any of the studies dealing with Polish Jews in the inter war years from 1919-1939.5 When figures are cited, the official ones are used.6 A study of minorities in Poland during the inter war years also cites the official Polish emigration figures.7 It is probable that few, if any, are even familiar with the Institute's numbers.<br /><br />Sanning did not take into consideration that there were simply not enough outlets for a Jewish emigration of the size claimed.8 Most Polish-Jewish immigration from 1931 onwards was to Palestine. However, there were severe restrictions on immigration to Palestine and Polish-Jews had to compete against other Jews. Moreover, within the Polish-Jewish Community there was a concerted effort to discourage Jewish emigration by such diverse groups as Jewish Bundists, assimilationists and even Zionists.9<br /><br />Faced with an overwhelming amount of evidence that the Polish-Jewish emigration of 100,000 annually could not have taken place, most scholars would probably relegate the Institute's statement to a footnote. At the very least, any serious writer who wanted to use such a number would ask the Institute how it obtained its figures and where these alleged emigrants went. It is obvious that Sanning never did this. However, this writer did make such an inquiry of the Institute. The Institute's reply failed to shed any light on its figures.10"HC Guest Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06637890310984079048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-91483652911151959902018-08-16T07:58:46.148+01:002018-08-16T07:58:46.148+01:00Lol, not this crap again.
"He did this by ci...Lol, not this crap again.<br /><br />"He did this by citing a statement in a publication by Munich's Institute for Contemporary History that in the years following 1933 about 100,000 Jews annually emigrated from Poland. The Institute gives no source for this assertion. In fact, this is the only mention of Polish emigration in the article. The article deals mostly with German-Jewish emigration. Moreover, the article does not state to which countries these Jews immigrated from Poland whereas it does give such a discussion for German emigrants. The purpose of the article, as is clear from the title, is to deal with German emigration."<br /><br />http://web.archive.org/web/20040611010126/http://www.mossadist.by.ru:80/HD_p1_ch1.htmHC Guest Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06637890310984079048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-69840827783727314732018-08-16T02:52:10.449+01:002018-08-16T02:52:10.449+01:00According to the AJC:
'21 population = 2.9 mi...According to the AJC:<br /><br />'21 population = 2.9 million<br />'31 population = 3.0 million<br />'41 population = 3.3 million (like Nick said)<br /><br />But it's actually much more complicated given all of the border changes at the time. The fertility rate was high, Poland gained many Jews from its border changes, but many Polish Jews did indeed emigrate out of Poland.<br /><br />Nick is quite incorrect. Non-Revisionist historians have estimated up to 100,000 Jews PER YEAR emigrated from the areas that constituted the Poland of 1939 (not merely 100,000 for the decade).blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-47943964352904021942018-08-15T20:50:39.379+01:002018-08-15T20:50:39.379+01:00Whoops, sorry, I answered a question that wasn'...Whoops, sorry, I answered a question that wasn't asked - about wartime flight. Moral: don't reply to a post before having morning tea :)Statistical Mechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00692815834132828535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-55046867359740770352018-08-15T18:56:15.934+01:002018-08-15T18:56:15.934+01:00"Harwood says 500 000 Polish Jews had emigrat..."Harwood says 500 000 Polish Jews had emigrated before WWII from Poland. In my view, it is complete BS. Most states practised very strict immigration policy in the 1930s. What do you think about it?"<br /><br />Prewar emigration on that scale is indeed complete BS. The Polish government published emigration statistics for the 1930s in their statistical yearbook broken down between Jews and Poles, and there was nothing like this scale of emigration. <br /><br />Natural population growth among Polish Jews caused the total number to rise in between the last census and the outbreak of war from 3.1 to 3.3 million, *despite* emigration of up to 100,000 Jews from Poland during the decade.<br /><br />Immigration statistics for Palestine, the US and Latin America are available; western Europe was definitely more tightly closed off in the 1930s than in the 1920s. <br /><br />The burden of proof is on any denier to show where Harwood's (or Sanning's) 500,000 emigres landed up. Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-39971119264923741172018-08-15T14:06:48.307+01:002018-08-15T14:06:48.307+01:00Off the top of my head, about 250,000 Jews fled in...Off the top of my head, about 250,000 Jews fled into eastern Poland when the Third Reich invaded in 1939, putting about 1.5 million Jews in the Soviet occupied zone.<br /><br />About 175,000 of the 1.5 million Jews in eastern Poland were removed from the area before Barbarossa (100,000+ arrested/deported, 50,000 for labor conscription, etc).<br /><br />Fewer than 210,000 (this is the highest estimate) of those Jews living in the Soviet zone fled following Barbarossa. (Edele & Warlik think that the number was lower.)<br /><br />That means that of the 1.5 million Jews living in eastern Poland, maximum 375,000 got out, probably fewer, more like 300,000.<br /><br />Since the Jewish population of Poland was around 3.3 million in 1939, considering the above, you'd have about 3 million Jews left in former Polish territory after Barbarossa. Thus, these estimates for the number of Jews leaving Poland would still fit Raul Hilberg's total of 2.7 million Polish Jews (to take one scholar) who perished during the Holocaust. (Arad's estimates IIRC fit in with this, too.)<br /><br />(based on Edele and Warlik, in Edele, Fitzpatrick & Grossmann, Shelter from the Holocaust 2017)<br /><br />According to Gottschalk, about 150,000 Jews were repatriated from the USSR to Poland after the war.<br /><br />I will check my recollection later and correct this reply if I messed anything up.<br />Statistical Mechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00692815834132828535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-25606727230039435102018-08-15T12:40:37.754+01:002018-08-15T12:40:37.754+01:00Harwood says 500 000 Polish Jews had emigrated bef...Harwood says 500 000 Polish Jews had emigrated before WWII from Poland. In my view, it is complete BS. Most states practised very strict immigration policy in the 1930s. What do you think about it?Anti Denierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717557272695061780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-45577885137628360892018-08-13T17:43:34.069+01:002018-08-13T17:43:34.069+01:00Maybe in the future, but his key points are debunk...Maybe in the future, but his key points are debunked at the blog, use the search feature HC Guest Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06637890310984079048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-58145895543279011722018-08-13T10:37:33.311+01:002018-08-13T10:37:33.311+01:00Good morning.
Would you write debunk Harwood's...Good morning.<br />Would you write debunk Harwood's book "Did Six Million Really Die?"?Anti Denierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717557272695061780noreply@blogger.com