tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post2042249292978375199..comments2024-03-29T13:40:51.077+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: “The Stroop Report is a Forgery” (Part 2)Nicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-39798687467743882522009-05-31T20:15:46.502+01:002009-05-31T20:15:46.502+01:00What interests does the author of the rebuttals ha...What interests does the author of the rebuttals have vested in the holocaust? what interests does denier bud have vested??<br /><br />Why hadnt the author addressed all of denier buds points? There is no argument to be made regarding the pictures, mislabeling of guns, and or overall context. All the author can do is reaffirm the belief that these people who grew up in a certain era, at a certain place, were in fact EVIL... and a little bit naive about the weapons they dealt with on a daily basis. Do delete this before any one else can read it...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03294757508258466361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-18712722192493151422007-12-20T18:40:00.000+00:002007-12-20T18:40:00.000+00:00Oh, and I would add to my above comment the follow...Oh, and I would add to my above comment the following. In viewing the context of the Stroop report in terms of whether he had a motive to downplay the casualty figures, I think it's important to consider not just that he generally wanted to present an image of success to his superiors in the sense that any officer would, but also the fate of his immediate predecessor. Sammern-Frankenegg was court martialled on April 24, just 5 days after his failed initial assault that resulted in ambush by the Jewish resistance. Clearly, the consequences of failure for the commanding officer were dire, and Sammern-Frankenegg's fate was undoubtedly known to Stroop.<BR/><BR/>I think it's important to note that "failure" didn't mean operational failure. No german military official in his right mind would have considered the possibility that they would ultimately fail to put down the Jewish resistance. Rather, failure here was the humiliating implication that Jews could inflict high casualties on Germans, since in Nazi ideology Jews were considered cowardly and physically weak. Since there was no real question of ultimate operational success, Sammern-Frankenegg was removed and court martialled because he had embarassed Germany since his initial assault was repelled and likely high casualties were sustained. Against this backdrop, it is particularly unsurprising that Stroop would downplay estimates of casualties under his command.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-1965162996258836742007-12-20T11:33:00.000+00:002007-12-20T11:33:00.000+00:00I have a question about the Stroop casualty estima...I have a question about the Stroop casualty estimate that may reveal my ignorance as I have not read the entire report, only excerpts.<BR/><BR/>First of all, so far as I know there were a couple relatively minor firefights in January, 1943 before Stroop was involved where some small number of Germans may have been killed. Those I presume are not included in his figures.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps more significantly, the initial German assault which started in April 19 was not led by Stroop, but by von Sammern-Frankenegg. This initial assault was said to be rather disastrous for the Germans, according to Edelman (who I agree is not always credible in his assessment of German casualties). Nonetheless, Edelman's account of the ambush of this initial German incursion is indirectly corroborated by the fact that von Sammern-Frankenegg was removed from his post and replaced by Stroop, and shortly thereafter court-martialed for his incompetence. <BR/><BR/>After Stroop came in, he instituted the more effective tactics described in the article above, which likely would have minimized German casualties. Is it clear from the Stroop report that it does, or does not, include the casualties incurred under von Sammern-Frankenegg? I would think that Stroop, even if determined to be honest about the German casualties to his superiors, would not have been keen to include casualties under the previous commander (who had been disgraced).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-66170341682331957002007-09-21T14:14:00.000+01:002007-09-21T14:14:00.000+01:00WASt would have recorded these figures, but has no...WASt would have recorded these figures, but has not published materials on losses per unit, nor is it entirely public-access.<BR/><BR/>It's possible there are references in the Wehrmacht reports from the Militaerbefehlshaber im Generalgouvernement.Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-78906983972364740502007-09-20T11:43:00.000+01:002007-09-20T11:43:00.000+01:00>When reading the Stroop report some time ago I al...>When reading the Stroop report some time ago I also wondered about the very low figure of own >casualties reported by Stroop. On the other hand, I have problems with believing in Edelman's >description of streets littered with dead Germans.<BR/><BR/>As often happens with reports from both sides of an armed confrontation, the true figure probably lies somewhere in between what is claimed by either side. <BR/><BR/>>Does there not exist a possibility of verifying the German losses? Wasn't there an authority that >registered the losses (dead, captured, or lost) of the Wehrmacht? And didn't the SS have a >similar registry? It was important e.g. for the families of the dead, e.g. to get widow pensions. >Does anyone know more?<BR/><BR/>That's also my question.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-9920394642796737412007-09-19T19:36:00.000+01:002007-09-19T19:36:00.000+01:00When reading the Stroop report some time ago I als...When reading the Stroop report some time ago I also wondered about the very low figure of own casualties reported by Stroop. On the other hand, I have problems with believing in Edelman's description of streets littered with dead Germans. Does there not exist a possibility of verifying the German losses? Wasn't there an authority that registered the losses (dead, captured, or lost) of the Wehrmacht? And didn't the SS have a similar registry? It was important e.g. for the families of the dead, e.g. to get widow pensions. Does anyone know more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com