tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post8956869224313974886..comments2024-03-17T20:28:40.281+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell and Scientific RacismNicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-89558463857198406512022-01-03T08:46:48.167+00:002022-01-03T08:46:48.167+00:00it's easy to attack the "statistics"...it's easy to attack the "statistics" of "the bell curve". if the 'race' of the 'test taker' is a potential predictor of their test scores, you also need to evaluate the racial demographics of the 'test maker'. and if that sounds ridiculous to you, remember that both 'race' + 'IQ' are such contentious/imprecise variables that attempting to prove some correlation better damn well include the race of the 'test-maker' as a potential explanatory variable. then maybe you can write a book on why blacks are incapable of writing tests designed to measure a population's intelligence.JOGAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04085236330081866100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-30684205634290245202014-06-10T17:34:27.277+01:002014-06-10T17:34:27.277+01:00Rothbard was a racist. And, I wonder while he was ...Rothbard was a racist. And, I wonder while he was attempting to get all the poor off the dole, if he could have contemplated that the rich are always on a dole, and the TBTF banks would be the ultimate welfare recipients. Gary Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15499434824034613894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-57051789758797429042011-10-31T07:19:46.801+00:002011-10-31T07:19:46.801+00:00Your attack on rothbard for his views on race is n...Your attack on rothbard for his views on race is not only hypocritical but completely substanceless. Why should I assume that all people are born equal? Such a belief can only be assumed by three means:<br /><br />1. Coercion<br />2. Brain washing <br />3. Bigotry (personal bias)<br /><br />So in reality, it is you who are the bigots. If you want to challenge rothbard on intelligence and race, then please, attack the statistics of 'the bell curve.' <br /><br />Now I will come to your hypocrisy. You state that 'race does not matter,' and you also state that there is no merit in its discussion. <br /><br />Yet you are the ones who SUPPORT the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Palestine. You are the ones who DENY the Palestinians the right of return to THEIR land on account of their 'ethnicity.' <br /><br />I am a jew, a supporter of 'cultural zionism,' and I even support the state of israel, but i will be dammed if I am to be grouped in with the likes of you fascists.joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03434632153618955887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-79681975641011811932011-09-23T04:24:48.314+01:002011-09-23T04:24:48.314+01:00The Holocaust is a provable hoax - as documented b...The Holocaust is a provable hoax - as documented by the revisionist literature. As for racism being collectivist, every signer of the Constitution was a racist - as proven by their own documented statements. No founding father was a National Socialist; every founding father was a white supremacist.<br /><br />As to Mr. Mullenkamp, he is simply a tribal liar.bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07971075169663278544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-12260711683827196022010-11-29T18:54:31.832+00:002010-11-29T18:54:31.832+00:00"I think it's more accurate to say he ide..."I think it's more accurate to say he identified Franz Boas as the leader of a movement dedicated toward minimizing the importance of racial reality and that he did that in large part because of his Jewish identity."<br /><br />First mistake, this idea of race as "reality". Second mistake, MacDonald has no way of proving Boas' alleged conspiracy without reading his mind.Ruslanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592839943930072580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-7965468610419056682010-10-19T12:00:29.533+01:002010-10-19T12:00:29.533+01:00Ruslan, I've read the 'Culture of Critique...Ruslan, I've read the 'Culture of Critique'. I don't believe it's fair to say "Kevin MacDonald...claim[s] that the Jews are engaged in a conspiracy to conceal 'racial reality'" <br /><br />I think it's more accurate to say he identified Franz Boas as the leader of a movement dedicated toward minimizing the importance of racial reality and that he did that in large part because of his Jewish identity.<br /><br />I dare say no one can reasonably take issue with that statement, as opposed to your straw-man characterization of his thesis.Avi Marranazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00684927261380625600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-56780733912752296632010-08-10T13:03:47.188+01:002010-08-10T13:03:47.188+01:00By the way, has anyone noticed that this scientifi...By the way, has anyone noticed that this scientific racialism disproves the claims of WNs and especially Kevin MacDonald who claim that the Jews are engaged in a conspiracy to conceal "racial reality" and that they are attempting to destroy the "white race."Ruslanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592839943930072580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-78000895377859434542010-08-10T07:55:48.446+01:002010-08-10T07:55:48.446+01:00"Libertarians are incapable of being a racist..."Libertarians are incapable of being a racist, because racism is a collectivist idea."<br /><br />I love how these libertarian morons think there is some kind of mathmatical formula that will absolve them from being racist, no matter how many times they are busted. <br /><br />Conservatives of all stripes often think that if they didn't intend to be "racist"(and their definition usually varies), then it is impossible for them to be thus. So for example the kid with the "Obama Monkey-See Monkey-Spend" sign isn't a member of the Klan, and probably doesn't generally consciously hate black people, and so on- therefore the sign couldn't be racist. BS.Ruslanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592839943930072580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-74158159659772968242010-07-20T15:23:20.082+01:002010-07-20T15:23:20.082+01:00"Robert86 said...
Overall I feel this post is...<i>"Robert86 said...<br />Overall I feel this post is somewhat off topic for what I would expect from this blog. Then again it is not mine to choose what get's posted on it. Still it's strains the scope of the blog from historigrapy to political criticism. Not that those two are entirely seperate mind you but history and politics make poor bedfellows."</i><br><br />Robert, I read what Jonathan said above and I agree with him, I think to talk about these far-right groups and their ideologies/ideologists aren't an off-topic discussion, it's totally within of the blog's subject.<br /><br />The "biological", "scientific" and historical antisemitism and racism, that have been promoted since century XIX until now, are the ideological base for the Holocaust Denial and dissemination of the racism/antisemitism today through these extremist groups. <br /><br />These far-right groups(and other extremists) continue the "tradition" of the "biological" and political racism of the past with a new garb/camouflage, the same racism it made possible that the Holocaust happened and other tragedies. <br /><br />It's necessary to understand what these groups think and says which political groups 'racialize' the history for promoting racism, hatred and the rehabilitation of the fascism/nazism.Robertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005089545065782123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-73840369139947637852010-07-20T12:28:24.235+01:002010-07-20T12:28:24.235+01:00That's nice, that's the new "revision...That's nice, that's the new "revisionist" arguments about the Holocaust: to create spammer profiles of 'porn sites' for publishing spam/trojan links with them.<br /><br />Spammer Profile:<br />http://www.blogger.com/profile/02932338019878768463<br />Spammer Blog:<br />http://lyonsgeorge5611.blogspot.com/<br /><br />It'd be good if blogger/blogspot has have a ban option for these spammer profiles.Robertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005089545065782123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-30019934424816374822010-07-13T17:49:03.085+01:002010-07-13T17:49:03.085+01:00Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there...<i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there quite a few former camp inmates who claimed to have witnessed gassings in Bergen-Belsen and Dachau?</i><br /><br />I know of one inmate - Dr. Blaha - who claimed to have witnessed gassings at Dachau. He wasn't Jewish, IIRC. And his claims, while not corroborated by other eyewitnesses, need not have been inaccurate considering certain features of the building and documentary evidence whereby Dr. Rascher at least intended to build a gassing facility at Dachau. <br /><br /><i>If so, then Jews obviously ARE capable of making up similar stories, and a "willingness to believe" that this could have happened in Treblinka as well seems quite reasonable.</i> <br /><br />Reason flew out of the window with the "then Jews obviously ARE capable of making up similar stories" - remark, and as concerns Treblinka mass gassings are proven by coincident eyewitness testimonies submitted to cross-examination in court and confirmed by depositions of accused perpetrators, plus documentary and physical evidence showing that the place was a mass killing site. Check out the blogs labeled "Treblinka".Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-3569020335065328102010-07-12T01:22:08.906+01:002010-07-12T01:22:08.906+01:00If you think that's bad, take a look at the co...If you think that's bad, take a look at the commentary presented here:<br /><br />http://libertarianalliance.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/sean-gabb-on-holocaust-denial/<br /><br />I do believe that Greg Gerdes is among those lending a few comments.<br /><br />Joseph T MajorMajor Majorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517713211026600871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-1660504246625483282010-07-09T15:00:30.268+01:002010-07-09T15:00:30.268+01:00Contrast the above thread with Rothbard's view...Contrast the above thread with Rothbard's view expressed in Nations by Consent: Decomposing the Nation State<br /><br />"I began to rethink my views on immigration when, as the Soviet Union collapsed, it became clear that ethnic Russians had been encouraged to flood into Estonia and Latvia in order to destroy the cultures and languages of these peoples. Previously, it had been easy to dismiss as unrealistic Jean Raspail's anti-immigration novel The Camp of the Saints, in which virtually the entire population of India decides to move, in small boats, into France, and the French, infected by liberal ideology, cannot summon the will to prevent economic and cultural national destruction. As cultural and welfare-state problems have intensified, it became impossible to dismiss Raspail's concerns any longer."<br /><br />http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/3768/52019.aspx<br /><br />Seems to be based on a conspiratorial image of foreigners.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-68701571493495186822010-07-09T14:32:22.634+01:002010-07-09T14:32:22.634+01:00Many posters on the Mises public forum seem to be ...Many posters on the Mises public forum seem to be opposed to racism and to immigration controls.<br /><br />"It is not rational to discriminate against others, economically, based upon which side of a river, mountain range, ocean or imaginary line they are born. Nationalism is as egregious and irrational a belief as racism, sexism or homophobia."<br /><br />http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/17892.aspx?PageIndex=1<br /><br />If that's the majority opinion at Mises, then Rothbard's views on race make him something of a dinosaur in that regard.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-54285717493665922602010-07-09T12:23:30.480+01:002010-07-09T12:23:30.480+01:00Paul's current position is that "Libertar...Paul's current position is that "Libertarians are incapable of being a racist, because racism is a collectivist idea." Paul has distanced himself from the old racist newsletters that have been linked to Rockwell.<br /><br />Paul's critics have expressed incredulity that Paul would not have known what was in his newsletters.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-84035713623700761102010-07-09T04:13:32.669+01:002010-07-09T04:13:32.669+01:00Scary stuff. Any idea about whether Ron Paul has ...Scary stuff. Any idea about whether Ron Paul has taken a clear stand against this tripe?Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618557523844826402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-13398598756326475882010-07-08T18:13:58.069+01:002010-07-08T18:13:58.069+01:00"history and politics make poor bedfellows&qu..."history and politics make poor bedfellows" is probably true, but we are dealing with people - deniers and others on the Right - who have politicized history. Rothbard is an example, as is Buchanan, although Rothbard is much more sophisticated and erudite than Buchanan or any Holocaust denier. There's a big gulf in quality between Rothbard and, say, Mattogno, but that doesn't mean that we should not deal with Rothbard as a polemicist of history and 'race'.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-21791648258547877672010-07-08T04:26:39.856+01:002010-07-08T04:26:39.856+01:00Overall I feel this post is somewhat off topic for...Overall I feel this post is somewhat off topic for what I would expect from this blog. Then again it is not mine to choose what get's posted on it. Still it's strains the scope of the blog from historigrapy to political criticism. Not that those two are entirely seperate mind you but history and politics make poor bedfellows.<br /><br />It is interesting to note that there is still a nativist fringe present in the "libertarian" right that tarnishes it's reputation. It's even sadder when associated with a smart and liberty loving man like Ludwig Von Mises. <br /><br />Murray Rothbard was a quate valuable right libertarian thinker, who's insights where the corner stone of modern "Anarcho-Capitalist" thought. Sadly though he did have some bigoted personal opinions like many other famous people in history. Not black and white indeed.Robert86https://www.blogger.com/profile/07399340685632529674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-60952197193760489852010-07-07T19:30:14.268+01:002010-07-07T19:30:14.268+01:00"Speaking of observational powers, Roberto th...<i>"Speaking of observational powers, Roberto thinks I'm Smith."</i> <br /><br />A provocative assumption, not wholly unreasonable considering where the "Fooled Once" link leads to. <br /><br /><i>"If I were, I might go back longer with this blog."</i><br /><br />What's the poet trying to tell us here? <br /><br /><i>"In fact, knowing things without adequate reason for knowing them . . . isn't that at the root of our fundamental disagreements?"</i><br /><br />Could that be a reference to our anonymous philosopher's "knowing" that the historical record of the Nazi genocide of the Jews is a monumental hoax, without a shred of evidence to support his "knowledge" and despite all known evidence speaking against it?<br /><br /><i>"In one way of looking at it, you know a great deal of stuff that I not only don't know, but that I in fact question, to some extent out of suspicion as to the incentives faced by those who first told use those things."</i> <br /><br />Why "to some extent"? Has our anonymous philosopher got anything other than <i>"suspicion as to the incentives faced by those who first told use those things"</i> to base his "questioning" on?Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-26994678227316758852010-07-07T18:28:50.613+01:002010-07-07T18:28:50.613+01:00I'm just a bit new to the blog (forgive me). C...I'm just a bit new to the blog (forgive me). Consider my reference to "evil Germans" to be a reference <b>to</b> Goldhagen (and his program), and not to you or the blog (it's not <b>all</b> about you).<br /><br />Speaking of observational powers, Roberto thinks I'm Smith. If I were, I might go back longer with this blog.<br /><br />But I don't. I know your <b>means</b> of observation of me are limited (quite deliberately). But since they are so limited, don't base conclusions on something you really can't observe (conclusively).<br /><br />In fact, <b>knowing</b> things without adequate reason for knowing them . . . isn't that at the root of our fundamental disagreements?<br /><br />In one way of looking at it, you <b>know</b> a great deal of stuff that I not only don't know, but that I in fact question, to some extent out of suspicion as to the incentives faced by those who first told use those things.Fooled Oncehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904182032713445913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-56195861180555100662010-07-07T17:37:08.053+01:002010-07-07T17:37:08.053+01:00I worry about the observational powers of someone ...I worry about the observational powers of someone who applies the "evil Germans" straw man to a blog which has attacked Goldhagen's crappy thesis on more than one occasion.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-12482089915381054072010-07-07T16:36:15.749+01:002010-07-07T16:36:15.749+01:00Is this a blog about the Holocaust (you know: evil...<i>Is this a blog about the Holocaust (you know: evil Germans, Nazis, their allies, innocent victims, and virtuous, victorious opponents)?</i><br /><br />We don't think black and white here, Mr. Smith. Victims of systematic mass murder tend to be innocent, and the organizers/perpertrators of such may be called evil if you wish, but that doesn't make all Germans evil, and neither does it make the Nazis' opponents virtuous. <br /><br /><i>Or even about Israel and the American movement supporting it, whose interests motivate most opposition to Holocaust revisionism?</i> <br /><br />So, are we supposed to be with "Israel and the American movement supporting it"? <br /><br />If so, what made you think we are? <br /><br />Or do you not include us in "most opposition to Holocaust revisionism"? <br /><br />If so, who do you include?Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-43133745651731874352010-07-07T15:43:44.605+01:002010-07-07T15:43:44.605+01:001. Scientific Racism is clearly relevant to the Ho...1. Scientific Racism is clearly relevant to the Holocaust, as Nazism was partially founded on racial theories. <br /><br />2. Rothbard was a historical revisionist, in the tradition of Harry Elmer Barnes, so there is a historical overlap with Holocaust revisionism/denial, even if Rothbard himself did not write about the Holocaust. Some of Rothbard's themes - e.g. the reasons for US entry into the war; whether Hitler's intentions were aggressive or defensive - are clearly of relevance to debates with deniers.<br /><br />3. Rothbard's evasions and minimizations regarding Buchanan and Duke are clearly a form of denial about the true nature of those political movements, which were more collectivist ('white rights') than truly libertarian.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-43574551354486576532010-07-07T14:38:51.510+01:002010-07-07T14:38:51.510+01:00By my measure, about 10 percent of this post conce...By my measure, about 10 percent of this post concerns the Holocaust, another 10 percent concerns Jews and Jewishness, and none of it concerns Israel.<br /><br /><b>Is</b> this a blog about the Holocaust (you know: evil Germans, Nazis, their allies, innocent victims, and virtuous, victorious opponents)? Or even about Israel and the American movement supporting it, whose interests motivate most opposition to Holocaust revisionism?<br /><br />Not to say, of course, that Harrison's post is not (a) interesting; and (b) valid, at least as far as it goes (some omissions, inadvertent and/or deliberate, but it <b>is</b> just a blog post).Fooled Oncehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904182032713445913noreply@blogger.com