tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post8666116260098248753..comments2024-03-29T02:19:32.860+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Three Hitler Speeches from 1942Nicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-77110881627856776992019-09-22T21:03:45.800+01:002019-09-22T21:03:45.800+01:00here is another quote from 30 september 1942. I th...here is another quote from 30 september 1942. I think is better because Hitler is more brief...or short.<br /><br />should Jewry instigate an international world <br />war in order to exterminate the Aryan people of Europe, then not the Aryan people will be <br />exterminated, but the Jews..<br /><br />In this case, the deportation meaning is imposible (but the jews)<br /><br />Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03718987176474188005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-15965000302456464992018-02-23T02:45:02.088+00:002018-02-23T02:45:02.088+00:00@Roberto Modern historiography (in particular some...@Roberto Modern historiography (in particular some work of Mallmann, Cüppers, and others) that Hitler's ambitions also extended to North Africa and West Asia. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15448145962822682643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-10139902580906268182014-08-10T12:36:42.136+01:002014-08-10T12:36:42.136+01:00«"Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill...«"Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill all Jews throughout the world?"<br /><br />I think it would be fair to say that if Hitler wanted to kill all Jews in Europe, he would also have wanted to, if he could, kill all the Jews in the rest of the world also. Seems to be a very odd argument on your part.»<br /><br />Nope, it just means that the Führer's ambitions did not extend beyond the European continent, as opposed to the notion that he strove for world domination. <br /><br />«"Making Europe judenrein, through the "Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa", was sufficient to him."<br /><br />Yes, by deportation. That's one way to "vernicht" - turn something into nothing (in Europe).»<br /><br />Your linguistic arguments are as poor in German as they are in English. You don’t <i>vernichten</i> (destroy) a race (or the part thereof inhabiting a certain territorial unit, in this case Europe) by deporting it. Unless, of course, the deportation is carried out in such a way that and/or to a destination where the deportees are bound to perish.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-87574891246860158442014-08-09T23:52:12.426+01:002014-08-09T23:52:12.426+01:00"Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill ..."Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill all Jews throughout the world?"<br /><br />I think it would be fair to say that if Hitler wanted to kill all Jews in Europe, he would also have wanted to, if he could, kill all the Jews in the rest of the world also. Seems to be a very odd argument on your part.<br /><br />"Making Europe judenrein, through the "Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa", was sufficient to him."<br /><br />Yes, by deportation. That's one way to "vernicht" - turn something into nothing (in Europe).Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-55110503576589731012014-08-05T12:25:45.595+01:002014-08-05T12:25:45.595+01:00Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill all Je...Who said your beloved Führer wanted to kill all Jews throughout the world? <br /><br />Making Europe <i>judenrein</i>, through the "Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa", was sufficient to him.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-6114049636630147152014-08-04T19:46:19.731+01:002014-08-04T19:46:19.731+01:00"I thought I would attach the following video..."I thought I would attach the following videoclip containing a collection of these very threats made by Hitler against Jewry, including a threat which deniers, understandably, steadfastly ignores all they can.<br /><br />The threat in question contains a very explicit promise of "Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa""<br /><br />That clip has been debated many times on various fora - there is nothing special about it. It's just the same rhetoric about wiping out the Jews, but this phrasing also happens to use the wording "in Europa". In another speech, Hitler uses the wording "played out its role" (in Europe) and "disappear from Europe". Doesn't necessarily sound like killing of all Jews to me.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-31082897976429923312014-07-12T19:08:59.460+01:002014-07-12T19:08:59.460+01:00Glad I could be of assistance, Mr. Harrisson, and ...Glad I could be of assistance, Mr. Harrisson, and I apoligize for my embarassing mistake of misnaming you as Herr Muehlenkamp.:D<br /><br /><br />Cheers:)<br />/G.S<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13910122220791322570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-242774977773412012014-07-12T13:56:09.129+01:002014-07-12T13:56:09.129+01:00Thanks. I have amended the main post accordingly.Thanks. I have amended the main post accordingly.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-1492031106734516212014-07-09T04:58:27.378+01:002014-07-09T04:58:27.378+01:00Greetings, Mr. Muehlenkamp.
As deniers often atte...Greetings, Mr. Muehlenkamp.<br /><br />As deniers often attempts to claim that Hitler merely speaks of "ausrottung des Judentums", thus attempting to make it seem as Hitler merely meant annihilation of Judaism as a power and not annihilation of the Jewish people, I thought I would attach the following videoclip containing a collection of these very threats made by Hitler against Jewry, including a threat which deniers, understandably, steadfastly ignores all they can.<br /><br />The threat in question contains a very explicit promise of "Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa" - Here is the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKA4Ru9LX8M<br /><br />(I do not know if the links in this post will be automatically bluemarked and clickable when uploaded, but if not, perhaps some moderator or admin can fix it)<br /><br />Once, a very angry denier I confronted with these materials, tried to claim that "Vernichtung" means "move/remove" as in deportation, and not annihilation; a interpretation that any fluent speaker of the German language not only finds laughable and can attest is for a fact a direct lie, but also further demonstrates the outright dishonesty of the methods deniers use.<br /><br />The word "Vernichtung" simply means 'extinction', annihilation', extermination, et cetera, as can be seen here: https://www.google.se/search?q=vernichtung+english&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:sv-SE:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=0bq8U87JAoqA8QfEq4HoCg#channel=fflb&q=vernichtung+translation&rls=org.mozilla:sv-SE:officia<br /><br />The reader is free to look it up in any Encyclopedia and check for him/herself or ask any native German speaker.<br /><br />In addition with the fact that the word 'Rasse' means "Race", the listener can hopefully add 2+2 together what it means when Hitler threatens with "vernichtung der jüdischen rasse in Europa".<br /><br /><br />Keep up the good work, Mr. Muehlenkamp<br /><br /><br />P.S.<br /><br />Perhaps the provided clip could be added into the main entry-post with an attached explanation of the word Vernichtung?<br /><br />D.S.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13910122220791322570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-49441831815703183252014-06-08T06:14:18.330+01:002014-06-08T06:14:18.330+01:00"I'm actually not that interested in inte..."I'm actually not that interested in internet debates"<br /><br />Uhm, right. Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-23044009467220056462014-06-07T21:23:12.356+01:002014-06-07T21:23:12.356+01:00«Yet you need page after page of longwinded explan...«Yet you need page after page of longwinded explanations to attack what is supposedly just hollow blather.» <br /><br />No, the "longwinded explanations" addressed what little you produced by way of arguments before being reduced to just hollow blather. <br /><br />«"Yeah, you better step out and cut your losses."<br /><br />I don't even think anyone bothers to read your posts - they all seem to fall in the "tl;dr" category.»<br /><br />Don't know what that category is supposed to be, and from what I've seen of my friend here, I don't think I'm missing something. <br /><br />«Good luck building your esteem on Internet debates.»<br /><br />You shouldn't project your own needs, and I'm actually not that interested in internet debates. It's just that when folks like you start throwing their garbage around, my aversion to such garbage sometimes gets the better of me.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-12979802997713028022014-06-07T15:41:32.781+01:002014-06-07T15:41:32.781+01:00Yet you need page after page of longwinded explana...Yet you need page after page of longwinded explanations to attack what is supposedly just hollow blather.<br /><br />"Yeah, you better step out and cut your losses."<br /><br />I don't even think anyone bothers to read your posts - they all seem to fall in the "tl;dr" category. Good luck building your esteem on Internet debates.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-29599579211700432652014-06-07T13:06:39.440+01:002014-06-07T13:06:39.440+01:00«"Hollow blather", "hollow blather&...«"Hollow blather", "hollow blather", "hollow blather". Must be the fifth or so time you attack me with that.»<br /><br />I found the word "blather" only three times in this discussion and the expression "hollow blather" only once. But even if I had used it more often, that would have been entirely justified because you have produced little else. <br /><br />«Which means the discussion is probably coming to an end.»<br /><br />Yeah, you better step out and cut your losses.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-59752672453540168952014-06-04T22:42:06.517+01:002014-06-04T22:42:06.517+01:00"Hollow blather", "hollow blather&q..."Hollow blather", "hollow blather", "hollow blather". Must be the fifth or so time you attack me with that.<br /><br />Which means the discussion is probably coming to an end.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-38630570564997612322014-06-03T19:08:53.479+01:002014-06-03T19:08:53.479+01:00«I prefer short, precise arguments that cut to the...«I prefer short, precise arguments that cut to the chase,»<br /><br />Then start presenting some arguments that fulfill all these criteria. <br /><br />«not your rhetorical nit-picking on every sentence.»<br /><br />My commenting your remarks is neither rhetorical or nit-picking, but the above period qualifies as the former. And so arguably does its predecessor. <br /><br />«Maybe you just don't understand what is meant by "rhetorics".»<br /><br />I use the term for the hollow blather that you increasingly produce as a substitute for arguments you don't have. Maybe I'm being too polite.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-466568597967689722014-06-03T00:16:00.476+01:002014-06-03T00:16:00.476+01:00I prefer short, precise arguments that cut to the ...I prefer short, precise arguments that cut to the chase, not your rhetorical nit-picking on every sentence. Maybe you just don't understand what is meant by "rhetorics".Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-31997634955820789472014-05-31T13:49:51.312+01:002014-05-31T13:49:51.312+01:00«So it was enigmatically said, but "there was...«So it was enigmatically said, but "there was nothing ambiguous in what he was saying".»<br /><br />Not from the speaker's point of view, as I said. And also not from the point of view of those familiar with the way the speaker expressed his intentions. <br /><br />«Okay, good luck with convincing anyone of that.»<br /><br />My interlocutor shouldn't think he's speaking for anyone other than himself. <br /><br />«"... and some more of your hollow rhetoric."<br /><br />This whole thread is filled with your voluminous rhetoric, trying to make sense of the senseless. The "insider/outsider"-explanation is just more of that.»<br /><br />Which is why my interlocutor is reduced to an inappropriate and self-projecting accusation of "voluminous rhetoric", I guess.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-76059496878777179982014-05-30T17:41:27.620+01:002014-05-30T17:41:27.620+01:00So it was enigmatically said, but "there was ...So it was enigmatically said, but "there was nothing ambiguous in what he was saying". Okay, good luck with convincing anyone of that.<br /><br />"... and some more of your hollow rhetoric."<br /><br />This whole thread is filled with your voluminous rhetoric, trying to make sense of the senseless. The "insider/outsider"-explanation is just more of that.<br /><br />Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-77520932752353103992014-05-30T14:11:23.012+01:002014-05-30T14:11:23.012+01:00There was nothing ambiguous about an "eye for...There was nothing ambiguous about an "eye for an eye" for those insiders who were versed in Nazi language. <br /><br />It could only be ambiguous if you think that mere deportation would be "an eye for an eye" for plotting to biologically exterminate Germans and for starting a war in which hundreds of thousands of Germans had already died.<br /><br />If some outsiders interpreted it as rhetoric, they were not paying attention to the facts that were already circulating in Germany such as the contents of letters sent home from troops in the USSR describing shootings of Jews. This inattention could of course have been deliberate, to psychologically distance themselves from the murder being done in their names.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-31743002200804258582014-05-30T13:03:53.278+01:002014-05-30T13:03:53.278+01:00PS:
Readers may have noticed that my interlocuto...PS: <br /><br />Readers may have noticed that my interlocutor dodged the sentences in my previous post following the one he last quoted.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-9520790435622303262014-05-30T12:52:01.957+01:002014-05-30T12:52:01.957+01:00«"Did I set up any rules against name-calling...«"Did I set up any rules against name-calling? Not that I remember. I do have an aversion to anonymous name-calling, that’s a fact. It smacks of cowardice and lack of character, you see."<br /><br />Unlike you I don't have the freedom to express my views without fear of persecution,»<br /><br />Why, our friend is afraid of "persecution". Another of those brave defenders of the "Revisionist" faith, who dare not show the face behind the rubbish they produce. <br /><br />Talk about "persecution", how about trying to do something about, instead of gratefully using it as a handy pretext for hiding in anonymity and feeding your self-importance? Do you think anyone is going to "persecute" you for putting your name under my petition text? <br /><br />«but if you think namecalling is going to help your case, then please go ahead. Insult is the last refuge of the out-argued.»<br /><br />In your case that may be so, in mine it's just a reaction to verbiage from the other side and/or an expression of heartfelt contempt. <br /><br />«"And where in the above-quoted remark does our sensitive flower see name-calling?"<br /><br />You called me a genius, so unless I'm totally mistaken, that was an example of irony and the meaning of it was the opposite: that I am stupid.»<br /><br />Actually the "genius" was a reference to your know-it-all behavior, but as you mention it, you haven't exactly shown to be the sharpest tool in the shed. <br /><br />«But please continue with your denial - next thing we know you're going to deny you're even here discussing on this blog.»<br /><br />Look who's talking about "denial". <br /><br />"He’s doing it enigmatically,"<br /><br />«Okay, well, "Enigmatically", from "enigma": "a person, thing, or situation that is mysterious, puzzling, or ambiguous".<br /><br />That was my point to poster Harrison from the beginning - that there wasn't anything *clearly* said in that speech at all - it is all rather ambigious.»<br /><br />From the speaker's point of view, there was nothing ambiguous in what he was saying. He was just political enough to stop short of calling his spade (a mass extermination program) a spade in public. <br /><br />«So you've actually managed to "debate" yourself to the point that we actually agree. Well, I can only rest my case then.»<br /><br />I don't think we can agree, unless you accept that what Hitler was talking about with his "an eye for an eye" imagery was mass extermination. <br /><br />«"He’s expressing his intentions in a way that listeners may take as the announcement of a merciless "reckoning" it is meant to be, or as mere rhetoric. Those involved or to be involved in carrying out the program will recognize the former, whereas outsiders are likelier to suppose the latter." <br /><br />This is pure conjecture from your side.»<br /><br />No, this is a reasonable interpretation, which reduces you to lamely babbling "pure conjecture" ... <br /><br />«And it's adding to your already voluminous bag of explanations.» <br /><br />... and some more of your hollow rhetoric.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-82036989469281310352014-05-30T12:32:23.726+01:002014-05-30T12:32:23.726+01:00«"If you think so, how about asking your crit...«"If you think so, how about asking your critic to identify himself?"<br /><br />My *critic*? Wow, talk about showing what level you're on.»<br /><br />Wow, look who's talking about levels.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-76484139119614314182014-05-25T23:44:54.430+01:002014-05-25T23:44:54.430+01:00"If you think so, how about asking your criti..."If you think so, how about asking your critic to identify himself?"<br /><br />My *critic*? Wow, talk about showing what level you're on.Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-35200355356870494572014-05-25T23:43:52.768+01:002014-05-25T23:43:52.768+01:00"Did I set up any rules against name-calling?..."Did I set up any rules against name-calling? Not that I remember. I do have an aversion to anonymous name-calling, that’s a fact. It smacks of cowardice and lack of character, you see."<br /><br />Unlike you I don't have the freedom to express my views without fear of persecution, but if you think namecalling is going to help your case, then please go ahead. Insult is the last refuge of the out-argued.<br /><br />"And where in the above-quoted remark does our sensitive flower see name-calling?"<br /><br />You called me a genius, so unless I'm totally mistaken, that was an example of irony and the meaning of it was the opposite: that I am stupid. But please continue with your denial - next thing we know you're going to deny you're even here discussing on this blog.<br /><br />"He’s doing it enigmatically,"<br /><br />Okay, well, "Enigmatically", from "enigma": "a person, thing, or situation that is mysterious, puzzling, or ambiguous".<br /><br />That was my point to poster Harrison from the beginning - that there wasn't anything *clearly* said in that speech at all - it is all rather ambigious. So you've actually managed to "debate" yourself to the point that we actually agree. Well, I can only rest my case then.<br /><br />"He’s expressing his intentions in a way that listeners may take as the announcement of a merciless "reckoning" it is meant to be, or as mere rhetoric. Those involved or to be involved in carrying out the program will recognize the former, whereas outsiders are likelier to suppose the latter." <br /><br />This is pure conjecture from your side. And it's adding to your already voluminous bag of explanations. Teslahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110816723966005713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-864335386676366522014-05-25T23:35:40.155+01:002014-05-25T23:35:40.155+01:00«"Apparently, ends and means are too complex ...«"Apparently, ends and means are too complex a subject for this idiot to understand."<br /><br />I guess you're one of those anonymous cowards Roberto is talking about.» <br /><br />If you think so, how about asking your critic to identify himself?<br /><br />I guess he will do so - provided of course that you do the same.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.com