tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post7797463542611061323..comments2024-03-28T22:15:31.901+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Seriously Now, Where Did The Jews "Evacuated to The East" Go?Nicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-42012312277021860762020-03-09T01:34:00.767+00:002020-03-09T01:34:00.767+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-67072238675848314212020-02-16T11:15:36.143+00:002020-02-16T11:15:36.143+00:00Holocaust denial is unscientific because it's ...Holocaust denial is unscientific because it's unfalsifiable.<br /><br />Despite what Deniers claim, the Holocaust is easily falsifiable. Either prove that the "missing" Jews were resettled and not murdered, or prove the so called "Hoax" of the Allied Powers faking the Holocaust. Deniers have failed on both counts. As mentioned in the Article, there's less than Zero evidence of Jews being "resettled" in the USSR or the "Russian East". The very thorough Settlement statistics of the Gulags and colonies make it clear that there were few if any Jews imprisoned in the Gulags during this time. When 1.2M Jews disappeared after being sent to the Reinhard camps, there was no corresponding increase in either the General Soviet Jewish Population or the Population of the Gulags. There are also cases of Jews being moved westwards to the Reinhard camps and Auschwitz, away from the so called "Russian east". Also, since the US and Soviets both glossed over Nazi War crimes and recruited Nazi War criminals, and the UK did the same while continuing to oppress Holocaust survivors, it can safely be said that the Deniers failed to prove the "Hoax".<br /><br />The Holocaust is falsifiable. Deniers failing to meet the conditions to disprove the Holocaust does not mean it isn't "falsifiable", as they claim.<br /><br />Denial OTOH is un-falsifiable, because it's based on conspiracy theories and racism. Deniers will never accept any evidence - physical, documentary or testimonial or photographic - because their belief isn't rational but based on paranoia and racism, with a dash of pseudo intellectualism. Deniers believe they are right and everyone else is wrong and frequently alter their conditions for admitting that they are wrong, making their nonsense a textbook example of an unscientific, un-falsifiable claim. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-58135387161340639242020-02-11T23:04:20.731+00:002020-02-11T23:04:20.731+00:00Thanks, looks interesting!Thanks, looks interesting!Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-6836788184113770052020-02-11T15:50:30.547+00:002020-02-11T15:50:30.547+00:00There is a recent article on Korherr in the VSWG j...There is a recent article on Korherr in the VSWG journal<br /><br />https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/fsv/vswg/2020/00000106/00000004/art00001Ángelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13096319489955432818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-48695123024684499122020-02-04T23:30:00.846+00:002020-02-04T23:30:00.846+00:00Thanks for the detailed replies. Good info to kno...Thanks for the detailed replies. Good info to know.blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-49936781975210192712020-02-04T14:21:44.529+00:002020-02-04T14:21:44.529+00:00Even more explicit, in the "long Korherr"...Even more explicit, in the "long Korherr" it reads: <br /><br />"In der Bilanz sind die <b>neuerworbenen Ostgebiete</b> (mit Ausnahme von Danzig) nicht enthalten. Ihre Bilanz kann noch nicht erstellt werden. Doch gibt es über die Juden in diesen Gebieten zur Zeit der Übernahme ins Reich verschiedene Schätzungen, die auf eine Zahl von etwa 630 000 hinführen dürften. Dazu kommen etwa 160 000 Juden im Bezirk Bialystok und rund 1,3 Millionen Juden im Generalgouvernement zur Zeit seiner Errichtung.x) Das würde zusammen im gesamtdeutschen Raum (ohne die <b>besetzten Ostgebiete</b>) Ende 1939 eine Gesamtzahl der Juden von etwa 2,5 Millionen ergeben x), deren weitaus größter Teil auf den neuen Osten entfällt."<br /><br />630,000 + 160,000 = 790,000 --> exactly the figure given in the "short Korherr" for the "Ostgebiete", i.e. incorporated eastern territories. Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-40213389832269441972020-02-04T13:44:16.290+00:002020-02-04T13:44:16.290+00:00"21.12.1942 to 31.3.1943"
correction:
..."21.12.1942 to 31.3.1943"<br /><br />correction: <br /><br />"01.01.1943 to 31.3.1943"Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-33597977142361256912020-02-04T13:20:02.370+00:002020-02-04T13:20:02.370+00:00Blake: "Your map probably doesn't justify...Blake: "Your map probably doesn't justify 6 million - more like 5.0-5.5 million. Don't you agree?"<br /><br />Nobody at HC thinks the 6M figure should be taken literally and would generally endorse Hilberg's 5.1 million, or just slightly more. <br /><br />as for eastern territories, there were two:<br /><br />1. eingegliederte Ostgebiete = Warthegau, Ostoberschlesien, Danzig-Westpreussen, Zichenau and also Bialystok = incorporated eastern territories of Poland annexed to the Reich<br /><br />2. besetzte Ostgebiete = Ostland, Ukraine under the Ostministerium's supervision; occupied Soviet territories under Nazi civil administration.<br /><br />From the context and placement in the two Korherr reports, when he uses Ostgebiete he is referring to the eingegliederte Ostgebiete. This is apparent because in the 2nd report he lists them as annexed/occupied from 1939 onwards, but also because if the Ostgebiete are bracketed with the Protectorate, Ostmark (Austria) and Altreich, they should be contiguous. Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-34714625708520083722020-02-04T11:16:56.235+00:002020-02-04T11:16:56.235+00:00blake,
Ostgebiete (Eastern Territories) does not...blake, <br /><br />Ostgebiete (Eastern Territories) does not mean the occupied Soviet territories, but the Eastern territories of the Reich. Here is how the figure of 43k is calculated: <br /><br />233,210 as of 31.12.1942<br />minus 95,112 for the Warthegau, which is already on the map<br />minus 113,015 evacuated from Ostgebiete and Altreich from 21.12.1942 to 31.3.1943] <br />plus 19,417 evacuated to the East from the Altreich (since not part of the Ostgebiete]<br />minus 1,379 deported from Altreich to Theresienstadt (since decreasing the evacuations to the East from the Altreich)<br /><br />Sum: 43,121 = 43k <br /><br />Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-89298390971420808722020-02-04T06:14:26.368+00:002020-02-04T06:14:26.368+00:00The "Eastern Territories" were left off ...The "Eastern Territories" were left off the map and are mixed in with what you called "RK Ukraine".<br /><br />According to the short KR, there were still 233,210 Jews in "Eastern Territories" at the end of '42.<br /><br />I also think you are double counting with the red areas in your map. KR has 51k in all of the Altreich, 8k in the Ostmark, and 16k in Bohemia and Moravia. You show 43k in "Ostprovinzen". Are you saying there were 43k Jews in Prussia? Where did you get that?<br /><br />These changes would add about 200k to the map you have shown. Your map has a total of 3,244k Jews altogether. Since you're off by about 200k, that'd be about 3.5 million Jews in your map.<br /><br />With the addition of Hungary and Romania that'd bring the total up to about 4.5 million Jews altogether in these particular regions - but at least 0.5 million in these areas did not die by war's end.<br /><br />So you need to show about 2 million more deaths and from where (after '43) they came from by war's end. Otherwise, someone would look at the map you made and not be able to figure a 6 million death toll very easily. The question naturally arises of how many of the approximate 4 million Russian Jews did the Germans come across and how may of those died.<br /><br />Your map probably doesn't justify 6 million - more like 5.0-5.5 million. Don't you agree?<br /><br />You should add these things in. The "6 million" contention is one of the big ones with denial. You are addressing denial; you should provide a bigger picture for the general denialist position.blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-77855317881705984632020-02-03T15:08:34.161+00:002020-02-03T15:08:34.161+00:00Since the map shows the areas from where Jews were...Since the map shows the areas from where Jews were deported in 1942-early 1943, this obviously excludes Hungary and Romania. <br /><br />The map is a snapshot based on Korherr largely re 1942, not the whole of the Holocaust; the denier 'transit camp' thesis must survive scrutiny really for 1942 alone. <br />Nicholas Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-74036765581108984232020-02-03T01:30:40.460+00:002020-02-03T01:30:40.460+00:00You should include on that nice map the areas not ...You should include on that nice map the areas not in German control with large Jewish populations - such as Hungary, Romania, and the Soviet areas. Then someone won;t look at the map and wonder where the "6 million" came from. It'll be there in the map for later reference.blake121666https://www.blogger.com/profile/07355647679491593871noreply@blogger.com