tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post4804891696685153216..comments2024-03-20T07:25:58.202+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Response to C. YeagerNicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-56714378348408974692011-10-23T09:43:54.117+01:002011-10-23T09:43:54.117+01:00Dear Mr. Neader,
Bringing up Beevor as a 'hist...Dear Mr. Neader,<br />Bringing up Beevor as a 'historical' source is nothing more then a joke. Beevor's 'non-fictional' books may only feels that way to a Westerner filled with Russofobia. <br />Unless, Beevor can prove that he personally witnessed 2 million rapes committed by Soviet soldiers in occupied Germany he should admit that he rather express his biased opinion not a fact! Not to mention that Solgenitsin would not be able to prove this either....Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10988700568147927385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-69531530004759146122010-02-09T00:40:24.954+00:002010-02-09T00:40:24.954+00:00My response to Yeager:
http://holocaustcontrovers...My response to Yeager:<br /><br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/yeager-v-neander-2-no-foot-left-unshot.htmlSergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-12582020417539681872010-02-08T23:45:46.118+00:002010-02-08T23:45:46.118+00:00Yeager waves away 28 documents because they are no...Yeager waves away 28 documents because they are not on Wikipedia. She's a clown.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-33261952427198295602010-02-08T23:35:59.912+00:002010-02-08T23:35:59.912+00:00Don't know if you noticed that
http://www.rev...Don't know if you noticed that<br /><br />http://www.revblog.codoh.com/2010/02/second-response-to-j-neander/<br /><br />maybe you'll understand my first reaction better...<br /><br />If i were you, i would ignore it(her?)...<br /><br />i have been in some thoughts i would like to share with you later on...it has nothing to do with her...Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-79542409929030656662010-02-07T23:48:58.368+00:002010-02-07T23:48:58.368+00:00The historians and researchers should be more vigi...The historians and researchers should be more vigilant and should expose more fakes, but let's not forget that they have already exposed several - Sereny exposed Martin Gray, someone exposed Wilkomirski, Grabowski, Defonseca. Recently Ken Waltzer successfully exposed Herman Rosenblatt. More action is needed, but it's wrong to say that nothing at all is done.<br /><br />Also, the Zisblatt story will have a continuation.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-19226207777716705902010-02-07T23:45:03.676+00:002010-02-07T23:45:03.676+00:00Well first, thanks for talking to me...
"We ...Well first, thanks for talking to me...<br /><br />"We think that anger in such cases is counterproductive. We state facts as they are, and whatever will be, will be." <br /><br />Of course your're right<br /><br />"As time passes and only the child survivors remain, I'm afraid we will see more stories like this in the near future, if the historians aren't more vigilant. Child survivors are the least reliable witnesses."<br /><br />that is exactly what i fear for the future...and the Yeagerlike will have even more fun...<br /><br />"So historians do not give Spielberg a free pass."<br /><br />Of course not, but honnestly, who cares about historians (after having been one myself) in such a poor cultural society as ours ? <br />What is their power against propaganda ? They get credits when the are usefull (in the right wind, if your know what i mean), otherwise they mostly get nothing...What if the wind change...?<br />Spielberg's influence is far stronger than any other academy...On the Amazon screen "it's 28 five stars and 2 four stars"...<br />Worse, is it should have deserved it! IT had to be perfect!Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-306573517536515562010-02-07T22:14:28.403+00:002010-02-07T22:14:28.403+00:00Christoper Browning, in "Collected Memories&q...Christoper Browning, in "Collected Memories", criticizes the Spielberg project. He says that "the interviewer is more active" (p.45) than in comparable projects, and that "some of the interviewers' questions are frustratingly naive and uninformed. He also notes that six of the Spielberg interviewees Browning studied interpolated the shower scene from "Schindler's List" into their answers (p.84).<br /><br />So historians do not give Spielberg a free pass.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-79518833885134839742010-02-07T19:43:21.503+00:002010-02-07T19:43:21.503+00:00> i have more anger than you all.
We think tha...> i have more anger than you all.<br /><br />We think that anger in such cases is counterproductive. We state facts as they are, and whatever will be, will be.<br /><br />Sometimes we vent, like in my case with dumbfuck Williamson, but Irene Zisblatt is not such a case.<br /><br />> BUT WHY has she been selected by Spielberg ?<br /><br />Note that her book is actually much more ridiculous than her earlier testimonies (wrong as they are). So that was "the last drop".<br /><br />Before her book, it should have also been apparent that she is a problematic witness, but yes, the skepticism towards individual Holocaust survivors is seen by many as a bad thing, perhaps even as a sign of denial, so the critical barriers, unfortunately, are lowered.<br /><br />Then, probably not all researchers at Spielberg's Shoah foundation were qualified enough to filter it out.<br /><br />As time passes and only the child survivors remain, I'm afraid we will see more stories like this in the near future, if the historians aren't more vigilant. Child survivors are the least reliable witnesses.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-47963703282013359112010-02-07T19:03:25.233+00:002010-02-07T19:03:25.233+00:00ok Sergey
i got over the misunderstanding...i hav...ok Sergey<br /><br />i got over the misunderstanding...i have read Joachim's work again and again, and realized i missed some parts at first because i clicked over the foot note.<br /><br />Seems there is no disagreement, but the reaction...i have more anger than you all.<br /><br />i have started reading the fifth diamond, before realizing "what is the point?"<br /><br />It is realy a confusing story, and leave only a big WHY ????<br /><br />I guess only a psychiatrist could answer about her motives<br /><br />BUT WHY has she been selected by Spielberg ? Where there no scholar to advise him ?<br />How could an can this happened ?<br /><br />ok i will stop polluting this topic, still overvonfusedBalsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-76632841656888712832010-02-07T10:40:55.091+00:002010-02-07T10:40:55.091+00:00Aaaargh. First you protest:
"I DID have unde...Aaaargh. First you protest:<br /><br />"I DID have understand it and i agree of course...where did i say i didn't??????"<br /><br />Then you repeat:<br /><br />"But, if i get you right, your stand is that "Whatever she said...she was there, ans so should be immune to public critics"<br /><br />NO, THAT IS NOT OUR STAND. Otherwise we wouldn't have published Dr. Neander's expose.<br /><br />> IF SHE CAN'T RECALL ANYTHING (which is good for her) WHY TESTIFY ?<br /><br />She obviously shouldn't.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-5143269307627952472010-02-07T02:30:16.372+00:002010-02-07T02:30:16.372+00:00"What part of "should be withdrawn from ..."What part of "should be withdrawn from circulation" do you not understand?<br />"<br /><br />I DID have understand it and i agree of course...where did i say i didn't?????? <br /><br />But he did conclude by saying that we all should have mercy on her...and understand her...<br />That what i DON'T agree with! <br /><br /><br />"Yes, because there is an unbroken chain of evidence that the same girl who was in Auschwitz and then in other camps survived and went to the US in 1947. Not to mention that in the Last Days she actually returns to Poleno and even meets her old housekeeper."<br /><br />As I said before, i don't know the whole case...so i won't say anysthing yet...<br />But i said she did already some damage by her TV testimonies of 1995 ...which are not the same as the ones of the Spielberg's"<br /><br />But, if i get you right, your stand is that "Whatever she said...she was there, ans so should be immune to public critics"<br /><br />As i said, if she had endured Auschitz...then i would have bowed with humility...but the question remains : IF SHE CAN'T RECALL ANYTHING (which is good for her) WHY TESTIFY ?" And Why let herself be USED???"<br />And yes, even 50-60 years later, ONE SHOULD have told her "My Lady, frau Koch was at Buchenwald, and her husband was sentenced to death, and herself in prison when you and you're friend were told were sent to Majdaneck to have your skin skined"...or " My dear lady, we all know it was bullshit since a couple of years"...<br />BUT WHO DID ????<br /><br />NOOO; it was, "come and sit down and tell your memories" that will be labled as TRUTH!<br /><br />BTW, in your research, you should condider the "Amazon oipinions" <br />as a screener...Because in a way it shows the impact of the lie! IN there you'll find the "tomoroe's dammage"Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-6733877869675998322010-02-07T01:42:36.928+00:002010-02-07T01:42:36.928+00:00> i guess we differ on what danger it represent...> i guess we differ on what danger it represents.<br /><br />And you guess that why? Have you asked me?<br /><br />> I have told that that Joachim did a great job...the only point on which i dont agree is the "understanding" or "pity"<br /><br />What part of "should be withdrawn from circulation" do you not understand?<br /><br />> I don't know yet as i have not read the book...But are YOU sure of it ?<br /><br />Yes, because there is an unbroken chain of evidence that the same girl who was in Auschwitz and then in other camps survived and went to the US in 1947. Not to mention that in the Last Days she actually returns to Poleno and even meets her old housekeeper.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-71109499507063005922010-02-07T01:12:04.766+00:002010-02-07T01:12:04.766+00:00yes sergey
as i said i was glad to know that you ...yes sergey<br /><br />as i said i was glad to know that you were aware of the problem...<br /><br />I did read Joachim Neander's essay...but still not Her book...<br /><br />If we know there's a problem, i guess we differ on what danger it represents. (though i temper this assertion after having read your forum). It is on the answer to give to those "pseudo-fiction" that we differ stronly.<br /><br />I have told that that Joachim did a great job...the only point on which i dont agree is the "understanding" or "pity"<br /><br />but after having seen Irene's Testimonies...I am more than confused...And my conclusion is that she should be disregarded and publicaly.<br /><br />Her faith at Birkenau is non-sense...Just listen what she is saying...it is almost scary...So that 13 year girl was pointed by the SS to control the entrance of the workers (afcter having sent to the gaz chamber!!) and the SonderKommando...that went back after 5 minutes ("because it doesn't take much time to gaz 500 gypsies!!!<br /><br />So one question, is she the same girl that WAS at Birkenau that your documents show ?<br /><br />I don't know yet as i have not read the book...But are YOU sure of it ?<br /><br />For Christ sake, she appeared on TV, and on the "Spielberg effort"...just have a look on what people say of her work on amazon (could be quite a reference for your research, don't you think?)<br /><br />Here are some exemple<br /><br />" could not put this book down. This is a must read for all. I gave my 13 and 17 year old a copy to read and they were very inspired by her story. We even went to the Holocaust Memorial after they read the book. I have met other people who have been in the camps and I applaude her for sharing her story with my children and myself so that we never forget that this has happened. An Amazing women and story!!!!!!!!! "<br /><br /> or <br /><br />"Irene Zisblatt is a true icon that I look up to. Her story is amazing as well as inspiring. I have recommended this book to numerous people and they have all loved it. Irene, thank you for sharing your story with the world "<br /><br />and when someone sane do ask questions ?<br />Here is the anwer<br /><br />"I do not understand why you would not believe her - I met her and heard her story. My mother was a nurse during WWII and she never spoke of her experiences for 60 years to my sister and I. It is not unheard of for survivors of torture and abuse to keep the pain inside for many many years locked up into themselves trying to forget and live a different sort of life from the one they had. This is true of people with PTSD also, I have met many Vietnam vets that will not discuss the horrors of their experience in the war. I am shocked that people are trying to discredit this brave and wonderful soul. "Seek first to understand". Her message brought the Holocaust to many in our hometown and she impacted many lives. Why would you trivialize her life and her word? She is a wonderful person and sincere. I am sickened by your cynicism and disdain for her bravery. Kathy E. Huntington, WVBalsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-74334702701258890162010-02-07T00:20:33.050+00:002010-02-07T00:20:33.050+00:00Balsamo, the fakers are the best friends of denier...Balsamo, the fakers are the best friends of deniers? Duh! How did we miss that?<br /><br />---<br /><br />As for Irene and Auschwitz, read Dr. Neander's article more carefully. There are _documents_ mentioning her there.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-86190943930217537072010-02-07T00:05:27.045+00:002010-02-07T00:05:27.045+00:00Well i have not yet read the book....but just goog...Well i have not yet read the book....but just googling her name, i came into those videos...the two first are amazing...i don't know this Eric Hunt...<br />VIDEO 1<br />So she is telling that her friend told ger that her skin has been selected to be transformed as landshaped (I know Joachim mentioned it), but there she explained that it was her fourth (or thrid) experiment,that there were going to be sent to Majdaneck, that it was because there was this wife Ilse Koch "sadist" wanted to have jewish skins to make gloves, lampshade...<br />But worth, So the girl went to Majdaneck to heve her skin skined...5 gilrs with two guards...but hey they never meet frau Koch (ah?) so they just went back to Auschwitz, to get THEIR TATOO REMOVED..."Oh cool she said, so they'll never know that we were here if we survive!", "Yes,said her friend, if we survive..."And of course the bas doctor were waiting for them to do leathal injections...<br /><br />VIDEO2<br /><br />Of course Mengele noticed her...while she was squeletic...he toke her out to the gates(she actually went out the caps to meet a gyspie transport!) to mix her to THE gypsie transport to go to the gaz chambers, immidialtly...But "she was pushing backward while they were entering the Gas chamber... there were too many, so an SS men pull her out (this naked child) to close the door...and of course, forgot about her...so she could hide near the krematorium from where she could hear all the screems...fortunatly, a jewish guy from he sonderkommando came and open the door that the SS had closed...She was saced...and even promoted...well enjoy the rest yourself, if you don't know the rest of this 1995 interview...<br /><br /><br /><br />http://sites.google.com/site/biglietimeline/<br /><br />Really, i don't know what this girl went through, but as she was included in Spielberg's movie that STATES "Everything IS TRUE"...Do what you want...<br /><br />So the question is was she ever in Auschwitz ? Because that IS the question that will be asked as well as why Spielberg selected her for his movie!<br /><br />Now you're right if she was there, even if it's quite hard to support that when hearing her, then i pity her as other of her inmates<br /><br />Otherwise, she should at least be treated...Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-22235067785155510392010-02-06T22:15:35.256+00:002010-02-06T22:15:35.256+00:00Well Johnathan, that is a tiny difference (remembe...Well Johnathan, that is a tiny difference (remember that i also used " publicly blamed" (or sjould i said denounced?)...it is indeed a small point considering the threat...<br /><br />After having read all your reaction, the only difference is to how to react to this threat to the truth.<br /><br />Now as i said , "THEY should be punished or at least publicaly blmamed" as i was referring to the fakers, as i still don't have an opinion about her...yet...I have her book in my hand, and we'll see...<br /><br />But if you don't even read the posts, there is nothing i can do...Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-75593876470159601282010-02-06T18:21:28.614+00:002010-02-06T18:21:28.614+00:00Yes, Nick is not asking that people like Zisblatt ...Yes, Nick is not asking that people like Zisblatt be 'punished'.Jonathan Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07929794273877529591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-55987339284068620112010-02-06T17:24:29.148+00:002010-02-06T17:24:29.148+00:00I am curruntly reading your discussion on your for...I am curruntly reading your discussion on your forum about how to indentify and deal with the fakes...very interresting and i wish yu good luck as it is a Titan's work...<br /><br />I read that Neander ask this question :<br />Joachim Neander wrote: <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />That's another question, admitted. <br />My question is: How can we protect Holocaust remembrance from distortions from the "right" (deniers) and from the "left" (impostors and self-aggrandizers)? <br />I see dangers for the truth from both sides. <br />What is your opinion? <br /><br />And Nick Terry answering<br /><br />"On balance, the greater danger is from the 'left', since some of the distortions can be so widely promoted or become so influential, and from my perspective as a university teacher, the greater annoyance is surely the potpourri of misconceptions and myths which students bring with them from school or their general knowledge, than denial, which is consistently rejected as loony (albeit by history undergraduates who have chosen to study something of modern European history, so a biased sample). "<br /><br />Did i say anything different than this ???Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-72348508544534796922010-02-06T16:01:38.670+00:002010-02-06T16:01:38.670+00:00Lets talk about trolls...there are all the forums ...Lets talk about trolls...there are all the forums you are participating...RODOH and the like...<br /><br />Sorry, i had a bad day yesterday...You see i currently kind of studying the "anti-zionism" blogs...and it is scary...<br /><br />Now here is a new structure :<br />- It all starts with Israel politics<br /><br />- the misery of the Palestinian people.<br /><br />Which gather lots of indignation, rightly IMHO<br /><br />Then sooner or later, you'are draught to Wall Street and the crisis, the CRIF and Sarkozy...And you finish ending up with a video of Leon Degrelle (that's just an exemple)...and a critics of the "Wolf girl"...<br /><br />that is poisonous combination, mucj more erffective that any "deniers websites forum"<br /><br />There have never been so many deniers in France, specially among the youth in the muslim community, and doubts is in many minds.<br /><br />So i guess i overreacted last night, but i still think those fakers are giving ammunition to the ennemy... Anyway maybe i had an internet craps overdoseBalsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-5228210941730236712010-02-06T01:37:19.848+00:002010-02-06T01:37:19.848+00:00You still don't get it. We don't need any ...You still don't get it. We don't need any schmucks, whether denier or not.<br /><br />Our forum is not closed to deniers in principle, and we have one denier member (though he doesn't post, but that's his choice).<br /><br />Here, read this again:<br /><br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/12/hc-forum-is-now-open.html<br /><br />See, explaining even this simple thing took so much time. Why should we deal with this at the forum? It was created specifically to keep off trolls (incl. concern trolls), dumbos etc.<br /><br />Anyway, try RODOH.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-46284797984128106122010-02-06T01:14:29.686+00:002010-02-06T01:14:29.686+00:00It's not restricted to me and my friends, but ...It's not restricted to me and my friends, but you are indeed not welcome.<br /><br />Is not that pure nonsense ? Forum should be a place of discussion, and as i am not part of any denier site, nor am i a denier myself, it just show that you are only willing to the ones who agreed with you.<br /><br />"distorted black-is-white view" well...what can i say...as i read your debate over all the fake/flase witness...no one ever talked over the consequences of those.<br /><br />It is indeed your fight, <br />all i wanted is to warn you is that double standard dealing with lies is a dangerous game...<br /><br />All the names Nick Terry and all of you identified...whom was it meant to be addressed ?<br /><br />It is a terrifying fact that science is loosing the battle you are so sure to win everyday. Antisemitism (though i prefer anti jew sentiment) is stronger than ever! More and more people doubt about the Holocaust! And i mean by that the suffuring of a people because of its "race", "religion"...<br /><br />and you are loosing this battle, dispite YOUR effort and common wisdom, because of all those bullshits.<br /><br />That is my point.<br /><br />Now the EU is going to forbid any takk about it. Nothing is better to persuage the agnostic that the denier are right, especially if it applies on only one side. Faurrisson lost many lawsuits, but the fake survivors, or the ones who "embellished" (non-sense as they in reality make things more ugly (as it needed to be ?!?) have to be considered to be "understandable"...It's breed for the ones that defend a "jewish conspiracy" theory...!!!<br /><br />So that is maybe the bee in my head...or sorry, as i am supposed to be a peasant...in my bonnet...Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-47104504352156857392010-02-05T23:49:06.980+00:002010-02-05T23:49:06.980+00:001. It's not restricted to me and my friends, b...1. It's not restricted to me and my friends, but you are indeed not welcome.<br /><br />2. One of the reasons you're not welcome is your distorted black-is-white view of reality, demonstrated by your claim that I "don't gave a dam of all those lies and their consequences".Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-38173710454478655312010-02-05T23:41:36.557+00:002010-02-05T23:41:36.557+00:00I want nothing from you. All you can give is prov...I want nothing from you. All you can give is provided by your blog...<br /><br />Thanks for the link you gave and glad you are aware of the problem.<br /><br />the fact you don't gave a dam of all those lies and their consequences is beyond me...<br /><br />Nice for you to have a forum restricted to you and your friends...<br /><br />have funBalsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-72504133637919760042010-02-05T20:58:41.924+00:002010-02-05T20:58:41.924+00:00You have a bee in your bonnet and I don't care...You have a bee in your bonnet and I don't care what it is, but you're getting tiresome. I indeed don't get what is it you want from us.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-67379642293260281882010-02-05T19:34:42.155+00:002010-02-05T19:34:42.155+00:00Correction
If she has been in Auscwitz...i mean s...Correction<br /><br />If she has been in Auscwitz...i mean she as well as millions have been victim of the Nazi...whatever she suffered, she suffered it...Balsamohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410662590230195856noreply@blogger.com