tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post3608495925045444257..comments2024-03-17T20:28:40.281+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: Finally, a takerNicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-86125756482936457992017-03-30T06:56:07.594+01:002017-03-30T06:56:07.594+01:00LOL what a failure.LOL what a failure.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-56178942095642584112017-03-26T20:00:17.898+01:002017-03-26T20:00:17.898+01:00http://katalog.terezinstudies.cz/eng/ITI/database/...http://katalog.terezinstudies.cz/eng/ITI/database/tr_out_dateSergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-61138190975805415802017-03-26T19:58:04.735+01:002017-03-26T19:58:04.735+01:00Rothstein's transport is identified as Br on 2...Rothstein's transport is identified as Br on 26.9.42 to Treblinka.<br /><br />However at http://db.yadvashem.org/deportation/transportDetails.html?language=en&itemId=5091986 in sources we see:<br /><br />"List of 2, 004 Jews deported from the Theresienstadt Ghetto to Maly Trostinec camp (to the East) on Transport Br, 26/09/1942"<br /><br />Whereas the transport description says "The transport, designated “Br”, departed from Theresienstadt on September 26, 1942 and was the fourth in a series of eight transports of sick and elderly Jews (“Alterstransporte”). On board were 2,004 inmates of Theresienstadt. It arrived in Treblinka on September 28 or 29. The transport was composed entirely of Jews who had been deported earlier from Germany and Austria, among them 617 deportees from Vienna and 584 from Berlin. Their average age was 72."<br /><br />The list designated as a transport to MT is at YVA:<br /><br />https://portal.ehri-project.eu/virtual/wp2-ehri-terezin-research-guide,il-002798-o_64-2-wsz-3/il-002798-o_64-2-wsz-3-304<br /><br />So in any case there is some confusion here and that is the root of the contradictory data in different databases.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-36971411906858166922017-03-26T19:31:07.293+01:002017-03-26T19:31:07.293+01:00Rothstein's brothers:
http://www.holocaust.cz...Rothstein's brothers:<br /><br />http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-digitised-documents/document/92596-rothstein-rudolf-death-certificate-ghetto-terezin/<br />http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-digitised-documents/document/82584-rothstein-heinrich-death-certificate-ghetto-terezin/Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-45458759703607552222017-03-26T19:00:26.883+01:002017-03-26T19:00:26.883+01:00Same Rothstein: http://www.holocaust.cz/en/databas...Same Rothstein: http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of-victims/victim/29772-siegmund-rothstein/Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-21785974497060895292017-03-26T18:55:16.507+01:002017-03-26T18:55:16.507+01:00Boisdefeau:
«Rothstein, born in 1867, was 75 yea...Boisdefeau: <br /><br />«Rothstein, born in 1867, was 75 years of age when he was deported from Berlin to Theresienstadt in August 1942, which means that he could only be deemed unfit for work and therefore, according to official historiography, had to be sent to the gas chamber; in this case, why was he sent to Theresienstadt? This is one of the many mysteries of the Holocaust religion, but let’s move on. From there, he was deported again to Treblinka on September 26, 1942 (transport Br), where, according to the historians, he was gassed at arrival. The editors of the Czech entry consequently go no further: for them, Rothstein died at Treblinka, too: <br /><br />http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=11619891<br /><br />http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=4911011<br /><br />However, when the German entry mentions the death of Rothstein, it places it much further east, in Belarus—to be precise, in Minsk!<br /><br />http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=10784457<br /><br />http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=10760945<br /><br />http://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?itemId=4129032» <br /><br />The first two entries coincide with the German Federal Archives’ entry for <a href="http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html.de?result#frmResults" rel="nofollow">Siegmund Rothstein</a>. The first entry seems to be based on the German Federal Archives’ database, <a href="http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/intro.html.de" rel="nofollow">last updated in May 2006</a>. The second entry is based on the 2000 Memorial Book of Theresienstadt. This source details the transport that carried Rothstein from Theresienstadt to Treblinka ("Transport Br from Theresienstadt,Ghetto,Czechoslovakia to Treblinka,Extermination Camp,Poland on 26/09/1942"). <br /><br />Of the latter three entries, two are based on the "Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community with names and biographic data of Jews who perished during the Holocaust", and the last is based on the 1995 Memorial Book of the Jewish victims of National Socialism in Berlin, Free University Berlin. The former two of these entries don’t state how and when Rothstein is supposed to have made his way to Minsk. The last mentions the transport that took Rothstein to Theresienstadt, but contains no information about the transport that is supposed to have taken him from there to Minsk. <br /><br />It stands to reason that the entries in the Yizkor book are mistaken and the Berlin Memorial Book, which precedes the updating of the Federal Archives’ information by 11 years, took its information regarding Minsk from the Yizkor book. <br /><br />Another possibility is that the former two sources are mistaken and Rothstein was taken from Theresienstadt to Minsk instead of from Theresienstadt to Treblinka. This possibility is more remote, considering the precise dating of the transport to Treblinka carrying Rothstein in the former two sources, and the fact that the Federal Archives’ <a href="http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/chronicles.html.de?page=1" rel="nofollow">chronology of deportations from the Reich</a> identifies several transports to Minsk from Theresienstadt after the date (4 August 1942) of Rothstein’s arrival at that place (on 17.8., 25.8., 31.8. 8.9., 14.9, 22.9 and 5.10.1942, all with the remark that they were meant for Maly Trostinec, the extermination site near Minsk). If Rothstein had been on any of these transports, and not on the transport to Treblinka on 26.9.1942, this would have been stated in the Theresienstadt records. <br /><br />Either way, there’s no banana here for "Revisionists", unless they can a) plausibly explain why the transport carrying Rothstein to Treblinka can be identified but the supposed transport carrying him to Minsk cannot, and b) provide evidence that any transport going from Theresienstadt to Minsk stopped at Treblinka. <br /><br />I hope for Jake that he has a better case for his candidate.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-7414696308763966302017-03-26T18:53:54.186+01:002017-03-26T18:53:54.186+01:00Boisdefeau claims that:
«many Berliners (in addi...<a href="http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/1/4223" rel="nofollow">Boisdefeau</a> claims that: <br /><br />«many Berliners (in addition to elderly Jews from other parts of Germany) were deported to Theresienstadt and then from there to Treblinka, but for the German authorities none of those unable to work died at Treblinka and all of those who didn’t return died in Minsk or elsewhere.»<br /><br />7,968 Jews are listed by the <a href="http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html.de?result#frmResults" rel="nofollow">German Federal Archives</a> as having been deported or presumably deported to Treblinka ("Deportationsort" = place of deportation), largely from the Theresienstadt ghetto. <br /><br />A short check (100 names picked at random) suggests that none of these 7,968 Jews is stated to have gone any further than Treblinka. So either Boisdefeau can point out one or the other entry whereby there was a final destination after Treblinka, or the suspicion is warranted that he made up the above.Roberto Muehlenkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03608133715777146924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-5460929696057715902017-03-26T18:18:41.772+01:002017-03-26T18:18:41.772+01:00This reminded me how the little grey rabbit once t...This reminded me how the little grey rabbit once tried to use Arnost Tauber's testimony to prove that people could be moved from Treblinka to Auschwitz. Indeed, in an NMT volume Tauber is quoted as saying that he was in Treblinka, albeit it was clearly a mistaken transcription of Trzebinia.<br /><br />http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/08/holocaust-minutiae-arnost-tauber-dov.html<br />http://auschwitzstudygroup.com/auschwitz-sub-camps/625-trzebinia-testimoniesSergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-25215371238944985312017-03-26T18:02:49.496+01:002017-03-26T18:02:49.496+01:00We should obviously expect some "outliers&quo...We should obviously expect some "outliers" just based on various typos and mistakes, as obviously happened in the case of Rothstein.Sergey Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063444062099331337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-87787921244764186132017-03-26T16:45:46.857+01:002017-03-26T16:45:46.857+01:00G. Rudolf claims a Siegmund Rothstein was deported...G. Rudolf claims a Siegmund Rothstein was deported through Treblinka in an article he published in Feb on CODOH and in March on IH:<br /><br />"One Survivor, One Single Survivor! Treblinka Transitees" by Germar Rudolf<br />https://codoh.com/library/document/4230/?lang=en<br />http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/2/4230<br /><br />He was relying on an older article originally written in French:<br /><br />"Gassed at Treblinka and deceased in Minsk" by Jean-Marie Boisdefeu<br />https://codoh.com/library/document/4223/?lang=en<br /><br />It seems to all stem from a mistake in the "Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community" [list of 430 Jews from Kitzingen, Germany] or one a YV clerk made inputting details from the list into the database of Shoah victims:<br /><br />Item ID....................9443455 <br />Title......................Yizkor book of the Kitzingen community with names and biographic<br />...........................data of Jews who perished during the Holocaust <br />Places.....................Kitzingen,Kitzingen (Mainfranken),Bavaria,Germany<br />Earliest Date..............1996 <br />Latest Date................1996 <br />Type of material...........Yizkor book<br />Type of material...........List of murdered Jews<br />Number of names on list....430 <br />Language...................German <br />Record Group...............O.41 - Lists and Documentation of Perished and Persecuted Collection.................similar items<br />File Number................1412 <br />No. of pages/frames........172<br /><br />Above from "http://collections1.yadvashem.org" but I can't link, also listed at:<br />http://db.yadvashem.org/deportation/resourcesDetails.html?language=en&itemId=9443455<br /><br />Neither Boisdefeu or Rudolf bother checking the actual source, unsurprisingly.<br />The Black Rabbit of Inléhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083144769375557650noreply@blogger.com