tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post2171981321847660584..comments2024-03-20T07:25:58.202+00:00Comments on Holocaust Controversies: The Kinna Report - German Document on the Killing of Unfit Jews in AuschwitzNicholas Terryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14852758011968360596noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-71757549464547776922022-04-24T21:22:30.363+01:002022-04-24T21:22:30.363+01:00The deniers missed an important contradiction in t...The deniers missed an important contradiction in the document, because according to official history cripples, idiots and inferior people were exterminated until the end of the war, especially in "death camps", according to the T4 action, and in the document we see that the RSHA prevents T4 in relation to Poles. According to this "document" Poles are supposed to die a natural death, which contradicts official history. The official history says that the idiot Germans were not allowed to die in peace, but were forced to die, but here the Poles were shown mercy. Such a statement alone is ready to put an end to the authenticity of this document<br />hvueuifheiofiwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07984547958815253371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-57956124337428624012017-09-23T11:42:50.112+01:002017-09-23T11:42:50.112+01:00Andrew Mikhailov
You don't seem to read very ...Andrew Mikhailov<br /><br /><i>You don't seem to read very well, Hans. I never said that I have evidence for his confession being extracted by torture. That claim was pure speculation. </i><br /><br />I fail to see how I did not read you well. I have emphasized that there is no evidence for torture, as this was not already clear from your own comment (your "if-then" construction could very well imply that there is some evidence, that is just not strong enough to establish something beyond reasonable doubt). <br /><br />I have also pointed out that your Aumeier torture hypothesis is little relevant for the issue at hand, as Kinna's report can be clearly interpreted as the killing of unfit Jews in Auschwitz even if Aumeier had been tortured after the war and even if his testimony were to be considered useless. Aumeier's testimony is just supplementary.<br /><br />Last but not least, you did not provide a plausible alternative interpretation of the statement on Jews in the Kinna report challenging the Revisionist case. You wrote that "the statement could of referred to something other than killing" but you are not explaining to what and more importantly, how such alternative reading is logically and linguistically anywhere plausible.<br />Hans Metznerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746792258730274681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-33701378182751247372017-09-22T08:09:43.694+01:002017-09-22T08:09:43.694+01:00Speciation in my most recent comment is supposed t...Speciation in my most recent comment is supposed to be speculation. Error fixed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-91163690657785990072017-09-22T06:38:36.046+01:002017-09-22T06:38:36.046+01:00My colossal error doesn't change the reality t...My colossal error doesn't change the reality that you cannot and will not give evidence of how I wasted everybody's time with my speciation, when it was so minor, that even Hans did not give any attention to it. You created a whole issue out of it and then me not seeing your first comment on this article, clearly added fuel to the fire.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-27763139937532322402017-09-22T06:07:39.235+01:002017-09-22T06:07:39.235+01:00Yes you are right about that. I did miss your comm...Yes you are right about that. I did miss your comment where you mention Poland downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the Holocaust . Hmm, I really do apologize for all that inconvenience I have caused. <br /><br />I wish that you will reconsider your opinions of me. <br /><br />When you said the very first comment, I thought you meant the very first response to me, because for some mysterious reason, I somehow missed it.<br />. That was my fault. I fully acknowledge my mistake.<br /> <br />You can remove my previous comment, if you wish, as it is useless in my response. I hope that the havoc that has been wrecked here has been put down, and that we can live all peacefully.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-20736891287994420562017-09-22T05:50:23.013+01:002017-09-22T05:50:23.013+01:00I must of certainly struck a raw nerve, didn't...I must of certainly struck a raw nerve, didn't I?<br />It us you who is hysterical, not me.<br /><br />In your very first comment, you did not even mention Poland, so I fail to see your point. If you did, please show, and I will take my claim back. You calling me illiterate is not going to help your case.<br /><br />You see,this is the problem with Holocaustinians. They get really emotional when someone shows that they are not being very truthful about their claims. When someone points those kind of things out to them, they go ballistic on the person they are debating, and all hell breaks lose. The debate descends into a bunch of ad homein attacks, straw man arguements, and name calling. I have seen this happen many times on RODOH, YouTube, Axis History Forum, JREf, and International Skeptics.<br /><br />Stop wasting your breath and strength to get me out of this discussion and smear me. If you think that repeating the same stuff over again multiple times is going to do any good, then think again. <br /><br />As I said, you ran into the wrong person to try to launch these attacks against. I am not going to silenced very easily,as you already probably already realized<br /><br />You should take a close look at my comments, not rely on your bizarre interpertation of them.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-13716901049218278092017-09-22T04:38:50.632+01:002017-09-22T04:38:50.632+01:00-Anyway, you still haven't proven or shown me ...-Anyway, you still haven't proven or shown me how I wasted everybody's time.-<br /><br />You did that just now. You wasted your time and energy writing crap about how I never mentioned Poland in my very first comment, when a simple glance would've revealed that <b>THE VERY FIRST COMMENT ON THIS ARTICLE WAS BY ME, ALLUDING TO THE POLICY IN RESPONSE TO HANS' RHETORICAL QUESTION.</b><br /><br />Idiot doesn't know the basics about the victors' postwar policies, and can't even be arsed to read the discussion thread. He might want to waste everyone's time, but I don't. Not anymore, given HC's strict but reasonable commenting policy. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-51520560933091843712017-09-22T04:33:11.601+01:002017-09-22T04:33:11.601+01:00Lol, illiterate fuck is illiterate. The VERY FIRST...Lol, illiterate fuck is illiterate. <b>The VERY FIRST COMMENT ON THIS ARTICLE IS BY ME</b>, complementing Hans' questioning of the possibility that the Poles "fabricated" the Kinna report. As in<br /><br />-http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-kinna-report-german-document-on.html?showComment=1499392332482&m=1#c3155148261747620317-<br /><br />--Or why would the Poles forge a document that says the RSHA did not allow to kill unfit Poles in Auschwitz?-<br /><br />Since the official Policy of Poland after WWII was that Poles were the primary victims and that Auschwitz was a monument to Polish Martyrdom first and foremost, they wouldn't-<br /><br />Illiterate, hysterical fuck is Illiterate. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-17434902693842911232017-09-22T03:25:33.257+01:002017-09-22T03:25:33.257+01:00"My mis interpertation of your claims was cau..."My mis interpertation of your claims was caused by a understanding on my part. I did not spin your statement about Poland downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the alleged crimes."<br /><br />I mean to say mis understanding, just to let you know. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-4912518929565873032017-09-22T03:21:44.278+01:002017-09-22T03:21:44.278+01:00I just realized that I made some silly grammar mis...I just realized that I made some silly grammar mistakes in my last comment. Well, I was typing this on my phone, so that is understandable. Is there anyway I can edit my comments?<br /><br />Anyway, you still haven't proven or shown me how I wasted everybody's time.<br />Why? Because you don't have anything to back that assertion up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-86694693807846406932017-09-22T01:34:46.619+01:002017-09-22T01:34:46.619+01:00As I mentioned in the very first comment, the Poli...As I mentioned in the very first comment, the Polish government at the time downplayed the Anti Jewish nature of Nazi killings, as did every other USSR occupied or aligned government. This would also rule out any likelihood of "torture" or "coercion", since any such would've run counter rot the government's agenda.-<br /><br />In case you need to a reminder, this is what you said in you very first comment:<br />Anyone who knows the actual history of how the West German Justice system dealt with ex Nazis would understand that there's zero percent chance of any "torture" happening. Mikhailov is clearly not one of them<br /><br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/10/germanys-post-war-justice-ministry-was-infested-with-nazis-prote/<br /><br />"Germany's post-war justice ministry was infested with Nazis protecting former comrades, study reveals"<br /><br />"Fully 77 per cent of senior ministry officials in 1957 were former members of Adolf Hitler's Nazi party, a higher proportion even than during the 1933-45 Third Reich, the study found."<br /><br />"The fascist old-boys network closed ranks, enabling its members to shield each other from justice, the study found - helping to explain why so few Nazi war criminals ever went to prison."<br /><br />Indeed, the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial was an example of this illustration. Roberto Muehlenkamp showed that the Prosecution was utterly incompetent and indifferent, which was why the court overwhelmingly sided with the defendants, resulting in most of them getting either light sentences and in some cases even getting acquitted. Mikhailov's desperate "torture" excuse would not and most certainly did not happen. <br /><br />Mikhailov's speculation was a complete waste of everyone's time"<br /><br />There is no mention of Poland here. Stop saying you talked about Poland in you very first comment, when, it is clear that you didn'tAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-37055988017076398392017-09-22T01:29:01.496+01:002017-09-22T01:29:01.496+01:00Hmm, I have seen this phenomenem among Holocaustin...Hmm, I have seen this phenomenem among Holocaustinians occur very often, in particular on YouTube and forums such as RODOH. They start insulting you and launching ad home in attacks against anyone who tries to contest their beliefs, and even when this is not the case. It has a religious overtone to you.<br /><br /><br />"Yeah, you're an illiterate fuck alright. Policies in this statement only refer to the policies that I explicitly mentioned in this discussion. The Polish/USSR coverup, and the West German leniency. In fact, here's how I said it prior to the sentence that you illiterately spun."<br /><br />Okay, thank you for clearing that up for me. Knock that "illiterate fuck" crap out. It makes you look ridiculous, really.<br /><br />I am not going repeat myself over an over again. My mis interpertation of your claims was caused by a understanding on my part. I did not spin your statement about Poland downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the alleged crimes. You can scream all you want. You can pretend that I did spin it if that makes you feel good, but it's not going g to change the fact that I didn't. I think that any reader who is following this discussion would agree with me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-37411126821987855492017-09-21T23:50:09.011+01:002017-09-21T23:50:09.011+01:00-The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland c...-The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland completely rule out any fabrication or "coercion"-<br /><br />Yeah, you're an illiterate fuck alright. Policies in this statement only refer to the policies that I explicitly mentioned in this discussion. The Polish/USSR coverup, and the West German leniency. In fact, here's how I said it prior to the sentence that you illiterately spun. <br /><br />-As I mentioned in the very first comment, the Polish government at the time downplayed the Anti Jewish nature of Nazi killings, as did every other USSR occupied or aligned government. This would <b>also</b> rule out any likelihood of "torture" or "coercion", since any such would've run counter rot the government's agenda.-<br /><br />Illiterate fuck is illiterate, and attributes statements to people that they never said, and dares complain about people taking him at his word. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-52763977559233007702017-09-21T23:44:26.963+01:002017-09-21T23:44:26.963+01:00It appears that you have some sort of reading dis...It appears that you have some sort of reading disorder. I guess that you want to turn this discussion into a merry go round<br /><br />If you read my response attentively, this is what you would see:<br /><br />"In my comment, which you obviously didn't read in it's entirety, I explained that my interpertation of your claim was that Poland and West Germany had similar policies of giving light sentences to the Nazis officers."<br /><br />This was my reference to a previous comment, in which I mentioned the following :<br />"So, my interpretation was that on top of downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the crimes, which you mentioned in your other response, Poland also had the same policies as West Germany in giving light sentences, implying leniency. If I misunderstand your claim here, my sincere apologies."<br /><br />So the only illiterate person here is you. As you can see, I mentioned your claim about Poland downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the crimes. My extrapolation was not based on this but the following:<br />"The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland completely rule out any fabrication or "coercion"<br />This right her is what my extrapolation was based on, so you need to stop calling me names when in fact it is you who continue to distort my words. Give it up already.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-87280451450430555622017-09-21T21:08:23.228+01:002017-09-21T21:08:23.228+01:00-The context I was referring to was your responses...-The context I was referring to was your responses to me. -<br /><br />No, this was what you meant by "context"<br /><br />-So what if I wasn't informed on the specifics of everything? It doesn't mean that I am not aware of the over all picture. But hey nice try in trying to discredit me.-<br /><br />Which was in response to my pointing out the fact that you wasted everyone's time by speculating based on false premises, instead of arguing based on actual facts. Thus, I was correct in identifying the postwar national policies of several countries as the context and the big picture that drove their actions vis a vis the Holocaust, and you're an illiterate fuckhead for calling these important national policies "specifics". And you're also dishonest for trying to back out when caught on it.<br /><br />Fucking idiot. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-89198772063823204412017-09-21T21:00:57.915+01:002017-09-21T21:00:57.915+01:00-Poland and West Germany had similar policies of g...-Poland and West Germany had similar policies of giving light sentences to the Nazis officers. -<br /><br />I never said this, you fucking idiot. That's just your own illiteracy. Again, here was what I said. <br /><br />-- the Polish government at the time downplayed the Anti Jewish nature of Nazi killings, as did every other USSR occupied or aligned government. This would also rule out any likelihood of "torture" or "coercion", since any such would've run counter to the government's agenda.--<br /><br />Your extrapolation of how Poland issued "light sentences" to ex Nazis from this well known fact is purely becauase of your own fucking illiteracy. <br /><br />-Yes they are the specifics. You completely refuse to explain how I wasted everybody's time. -<br />The postwar policies of several countries aren't "specifics", they are the overall picture and the context that shaped and drove all or most of the actions of these countries and or people. The "hoax" fantasies of Deniers are incompatible with this context, especially the USSR/Polish policy, which was the complete opposite of what they claim. Your inability to grasp this shows that you're some kind of idiot, rather than a self styled "thinker".<br /><br />And I did explain. Your speculation was based entirely on false premises and runs counter to reality, making it a waste of time.<br /><br />-If you and the bloggers chose to debate by twisting other people's words, then I am not surprised at all at why the RODOH threads are usually so abnormally long, and why CODOH censors you.-<br /><br />You're the only one here twisting other people's words, and your own after being called out on it. Fuck off. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-7842021758790366762017-09-21T18:50:00.920+01:002017-09-21T18:50:00.920+01:00Yes they are the specifics. You completely refuse ...Yes they are the specifics. You completely refuse to explain how I wasted everybody's time. <br />I can grasp the policy part vert well. I don't need you to help me on that, thank you very much.<br /><br />You completely missed the point in my last comment and completely distorted <br />claims. The context I was referring to was your responses to me. In my comment, which you obviously didn't read in it's entirety, I explained that my interpertation of your claim was that Poland and West Germany had similar policies of giving light sentences to the Nazis officers. That is it. I am not denying that this is true. I am not cosing up to the revisionist theory of torture. As you admitted,I was just speculating, which you saw as me wasting everybody's time, which you failed to prove.<br /><br />If you and the bloggers chose to debate by twisting other people's words, then I am not surprised at all at why the RODOH threads are usually so abnormally long, and why CODOH censors you.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-81091923097978317142017-09-21T13:04:53.800+01:002017-09-21T13:04:53.800+01:00-Poland also had the same policies as West Germany...-Poland also had the same policies as West Germany in giving light sentences, implying leniency. -<br />For someone who calls himself thinker, you sure are painfully illiterate. <br /><br />- So what if I wasn't informed on the specifics of everything? It doesn't mean that I am not aware of the over all picture. -<br /><br />The postwar policies of several countries aren't "specifics", they are the overall picture and the context that shaped and drove all or most of the actions of these countries and or people. The "hoax" fantasies of Deniers are incompatible with this context, especially the USSR/Polish policy, which was the complete opposite of what they claim. Your inability to grasp this shows that you're some kind of idiot, rather than a self styled "thinker".<br />Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-78755748713176513752017-09-21T06:13:22.406+01:002017-09-21T06:13:22.406+01:00"Then you should've informed yourself bef..."Then you should've informed yourself before wasting everyone's time with pointless speculation"<br /><br />Just because you make the same claim over and over again does not make it so.<br />Can you please elaborate how I "waisted everybody's time" by engaging in speculation? So what if I wasn't informed on the specifics of everything? It doesn't mean that I am not aware of the over all picture. But hey nice try in trying to discredit me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-10130385881438844492017-09-21T06:06:58.300+01:002017-09-21T06:06:58.300+01:00Here we go again.
I did not intend to misrepresen...Here we go again.<br /><br />I did not intend to misrepresent your claims at all.<br />Early on you mentioned how West German trial gave very light sentences to Nazi s and sometimes completely aquitted them. I told that you that was irrelevant to our discussion, because the Nazi in question was tried in Poland. This is one of the things that you wrote in response:<br /><br />"The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland completely rule out any fabrication or "coercion""<br /><br />So, my interpretation was that on top of downplaying the anti Jewish nature of the crimes, which you mentioned in your other response, Poland also had the same policies as West Germany in giving light sentences, implying leniency. If I misunderstand your claim here, my sincere apologies.<br /><br />There was a certain context in which I made that claim, and in no way did I attempt to try twist your words, as you are trying to imply. <br /><br />Yes, if I made that statement without the context in question, then that would be a deliberate misrepresentation of your claims on my part.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-41675152328690624742017-09-20T20:04:46.752+01:002017-09-20T20:04:46.752+01:00-You say that you talked about both Polish and Wes...-You say that you talked about both Polish and West German trials and how they were actually lenient in their attitude towards the Nazi officials. -<br /><br />I didn't say that the Polish trials were lenient in their attitude towards Nazi officials. I said<br /><br /><br />- the Polish government at the time downplayed the Anti Jewish nature of Nazi killings, as did every other USSR occupied or aligned government. This would also rule out any likelihood of "torture" or "coercion", since any such would've run counter to the government's agenda.-<br /><br />You have a lot of reading comprehension problems there. You keep misrepresenting other people's statements, yet have the gall to whine about "misrepresentation". <br /><br />-I didn't say I know everything or even pretended to. -<br /><br />Then you should've informed yourself before wasting everyone's time with pointless speculation.<br /><br />- That is exactly why I am looking at both sides of this intense debate.-<br /><br />There is only one side: the truth. The fundamental assumption on which Denial rests on, the "massive hoax", never happened, as shown by the actual policies and actions of various governments. All of the evidence, especially the documents, are 100% genuine and beyond doubt, simply because "forging" them ran counter to the interests of the nations that hold them. For example, the Polish government would not forge the Kinna report, which showed that the priority was to kill Jews before killing Poles, because it ran counter to their narrative that the Poles suffered the most at German hands. They wouldn't torture Aumeier to say this either. All of this is easily accessible and well known, and you're wasting everyone's time by humoring denier conspiracies when they can easily be shown to be at odds with reality. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-14352642233409586132017-09-20T17:25:50.975+01:002017-09-20T17:25:50.975+01:00"Because it's clear you don't know an..."Because it's clear you don't know anything. The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland completely rule out any fabrication or "coercion". This history is easily accessible and well known, and you wasted everyone's time by indulging in baseless speculation, that was also completely att odds with reality, making it a lie. "<br />I didn't say I know everything or even pretended to. That is exactly why I am looking at both sides of this intense debate. You are trying to accuse me of wasting everybody's time, again. Please cut it out. You also attempt to label me as a "liar". Nice try, but in my comment I said it was in the case of it being torture under which he made his confession, not that it actually occurred<br /><br />Also, when you say West German trials, does that include the Nuremberg Trials? In that case, I was definitely wrong in my implication that Polish trials and West German Trials were separate from each other, in the sense that they occurred many years apart from each other. They both occurred at the same time, but held in two different places. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-29616729207109449382017-09-20T16:56:08.981+01:002017-09-20T16:56:08.981+01:00Oh, here is where the fun begins. I must of misund...Oh, here is where the fun begins. I must of misunderstood when you said that my torture excuse was desperate. If I did, I apologize. You say that you talked about both Polish and West German trials and how they were actually lenient in their attitude towards the Nazi officials. Oh and what is what is this hysteria your talking about? <br /><br />Here is where the problem is. In your comment, you only mentioned that West German trials were this lenient, but nothing about Polish trials being the same way. I think that you should of been more clear that it was Polish trials too.<br /><br />"You tried the same old, same old denier horseshit of dismissing incriminating German testimony as being because of "muh torture!!!!". Your spin to escape this is pathetic."<br /><br />If this is the way you debate with revisionists, then I don't see how a coherent attempt to get at the truth is going to work out. I just love how you accuse of being a denier. I barely even questioned any aspect of the Holocaust. I have already had this experience on YouTube with an ardent believer who realized that he couldn't with stand my arguments and tried to label me as a "Nazi apologist" and an "anti semite". <br /><br />I am going to say this one more. I did not say that torture occurred in any way shape or form. If you can't grasp that, that is your problem not mine. <br />I am not like Hannover or some of the other revisionists who dismiss everything out of hand. Your ad homein attacks and straw mans are not going to work on me. If you want to continue to do so, then there is no chance of a productive debate occurring. You are dealing with the wrong person here. Don't even bother trying those tricks on me. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-35324419435532755502017-09-20T09:27:48.566+01:002017-09-20T09:27:48.566+01:00- Clearly, anyone who questions an aspect of the H...- Clearly, anyone who questions an aspect of the Holocaust is accused of not knowing anything-<br />Because it's clear you don't know anything. The postwar policies of west Germany and Poland completely rule out any fabrication or "coercion". This history is easily accessible and well known, and you wasted everyone's time by indulging in baseless speculation, that was also completely att odds with reality, making it a lie. <br /><br />I never said you were "desperate", but given your pathetic and hysterical spinning, you probably are. Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24597325.post-69805555830290054092017-09-20T09:10:12.462+01:002017-09-20T09:10:12.462+01:00Kinna affirmed the authenticity of his statement i...Kinna affirmed the authenticity of his statement in the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial, so of course that trial is relevant to this discussion <br /><br />- Aumeier was not tries in west Germany,but in Poland-<br /><br />As I mentioned in the very first comment, the Polish government at the time downplayed the Anti Jewish nature of Nazi killings, as did every other USSR occupied or aligned government. This would <b>also</b> rule out any likelihood of "torture" or "coercion", since any such would've run counter rot the government's agenda.<br /><br />-my torture claim was not an excuse in anyway....I did not try to excuse anybody-<br />You tried the same old, same old denier horseshit of dismissing incriminating German testimony as being because of "muh torture!!!!". Your spin to escape this is pathetic.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660486969581542489noreply@blogger.com