What Part Of The Word Genocide Do You Not Understand?
I wonder if his issue is also due to the Armenian and Ukrainian Holocaust denial being included or if its only about the Jewish Holocaust. Inquiring minds want to know.
He honestly comes off as half-literate and half-witted.
Hargis lies that we have not sought for European anti-HD laws to be repealed, yet the proof is here:http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/02/petition-to-german-legislator.html
That is it, one meager petition in 2008?
What do you expect? I also oppose laws against Holocaust denial but I don't live in a country that Holocaust denial is a crime. I don't live in California. Frankly, the only thing that I agree with is that Holocaust denial should not be taught in schools..but even then would this include colleges and universities? I can see where the the study of HD would be useful in classes regarding the Holocaust. Unfortunately HD is a part, a very nasty part, of the history of the Holocaust. So, I am still wary of such laws. Besides, you run into the issue of free speech. Blatant, violent anti-Semetism is considered hate speech and is not covered under the idea of free speech but I think someone having a contrary or controversial opinion should be protected. Even if I consider that person a total nut job.
You can post here uncensored but I can't post at CODOH uncensored, so the opponent of free speech is your friend Hargis, as should be evident from the fact that he hero-worships the Nazis, who - guess what? - were somewhat opposed to free speech. If California were Nazi Germany, Hargis would be in the equivalent of Dachau getting a regular whipping. Yet that's the regime Hargis would like to install in the US. Wait until he starts censoring your posts like he does with everyone else. Count how many deniers have walked away from CODOH because of Der Hargisfuehrer.
I recently learned that a good way to get Hargis to shut his trap is to ask him why he didn't serve in Vietnam. Given that he's in his mid- to late-60s, it's a reasonable question, particularly given his vehement anti-Marxism.
"I recently learned that a good way to get Hargis to shut his trap is to ask him why he didn't serve in Vietnam. Given that he's in his mid- to late-60s, it's a reasonable question, particularly given his vehement anti-Marxism."DOB 1949 so yeah, it definitely makes sense lol. I assume that he, like Ted Nugent, shat his pants for a week to avoid being drafted. I could totally picture him doing something like that.
@J Kelly: Not defending such laws, but the fact that HD basically runs hand in hand with Anti-Semitic hate speech (and you would be an idiot to deny that) plays a role.
True, however, most posts that I see from HD do not actually advocate harm against Jews. This is also true regarding the books that I have read from HD. They provide a contrary view that runs counter to history that we accept as the truth.Even most of the idiots I see post on Stormfront (truly slimy, low-brow, morons from the depths of society) don't slide too far over the line. Again, no matter what I feel about someone doesn't mean they can't express a contrary viewpoint. The fact that their viewpoint is completely idiotic is their problem.To be honest, I think that laws against Holocaust denial do more harm than good. It gives people who don't deserve it a spotlight when they are arrested. It makes them martyrs and gives them a platform. This in turn makes them attractive to people who are drawn to "rebels against society." Sometimes suppressing something makes it attractive.To me, HD dishonors the dead and forces survivors to confront the fact that not only are their relatives dead but there are sick elements of society that refuse to acknowledge the true nature of that grief. To me that is like killing someone over again.So, HD gets no sympathy from me.
As if he didn't want to leave even a shred of doubt that he is a big enemy of free speech and open debate, Hannover has started to delete postings in the thread in question linking to this blog. Reposts are here:https://www.rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=101&start=140#p71406
He has deleted his own posts that make false allegations about me.
Moderator deleted as they were off topic. And there was nothing false in what he said.
@JKelly"True, however, most posts that I see from HD do not actually advocate harm against Jews. This is also true regarding the books that I have read from HD."I encourage you to check again. Dalton and Graf have tried to justify massacres in Lithuania by using false accusations against local Jews. K0nsol, Charles Traynor, Berg, and TVH of RODOH all openly express hatred for Jews as does Hargis. Denial = Antisemitism period. You cannot be a true denier if you are not an anti-Semite to a degree.
I understand what you are saying. One of the things that I have always noticed about the Holocaust deniers that I have read are anti-Semitic and generally admire National Socialism. Berg in particular is a crazy old coot and If you've never seen one of Jim Rizoli's rants you are truly missing out. I've only seen posts by K0nsol but his hatred is palpable.There is a line. If you advocate harming Jews directly, plan to commit a crime against Jews, associate yourself with groups that plan or harm Jews, etc., then yes, you deserve to be prosecuted.Is expressing hatred hate speech? Possibly. Is being a Holocaust denier automatically make you someone who wants to commit crimes against Jews? Maybe. Where do you draw the line?Keep in mind, Jeff, I dislike HD. I've expressed my reasons for it above. Frankly it shocked me when I discovered that people existed who denied the Holocaust. I've dipped my toes into the cesspool that is HD. I've checked the websites, read some of the books (time I will never get back and I will never do again), posted comments on blogs, etc. It truly angered me when I read about the school in California that brought the subject up with their students.So, please understand that I get where you are coming from.
I have never seen evidence of Mattogno's or Jansson's anti semtisim, for instance, so I am confident that there is a miniscule portion of deniers that are genuinely non anti semitic. This doesn't mean that there arguements are any more valid, but it could be possible that this minority of deniers are simply ignorant and not in any way rascist. What to you think?
"I recently learned that a good way to get Hargis to shut his trap is to ask him why he didn't serve in Vietnam. Given that he's in his mid- to late-60s, it's a reasonable question, particularly given his vehement anti-Marxism."I remember accusing Berg of being a Vietnam draft dodger, and he eventually replied by stating something on the lines of the U S government had more use for him in engineering projects, related to the War !! He may have even used the term 'top secret', but I can't remember his exact words. All I remember is me 'lolling' !!
Berg is not particularly well liked even among his fellow deniers. One of the them described his temper tantrums as "Bergian."
"Berg is not particularly well liked even among his fellow deniers. One of the them described his temper tantrums as "Bergian.""@J KellyWell yes, but that is not due to their dislike for his antisemitism but rather for his arrogance and stupidity. They all seem to get along great with K0nsol and to a person they admire Scott Smith, both of whom are openly antisemitic (Smith is also a garden variety KKK-esque redneck racist). Graf is beloved by deniers and he is an open neo-Nazi. Even Been-There, a denier who claims to be opposed to racism, rants and raves constantly about "International Jewry" and copies and pastes antisemitic forgeries such as the "speech" by "Emmanuel Rabinovich" while insisting that they are authentic. I recently did an analysis of RODOH comments by one of their most prominent members. I urge you to check it out, he crosses the line between hatred and advocating violence. http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26393
I've looked at the link you posted.Blech. The only funny thing about it is he misspelled "emerged."What a sewer sucking troll.
Thanks, I will take a look.Anything that advocates violence, particularly with the events that have taken place just within the last year, is inexcusable.
He's pure evil. More deniers are like him than not really. He also praised the Charleston Shooter.
NHL at the same Codoh forum misses the point your making. You are claiming that Hannover misrepresented this as a case of California wanting to ban Holocaust denial. It is clear that Hannover didn't read the thing carefully and that is essentially what you are getting at. NHL fails to grasp such a simple thing ,but what else did you expect from a forum that censors posts that do not abide by the "revisionist" script. The only one grasping at straws here is NHL.
Evidence of Mattogno's antisemitism: his willingness to collaborate with Juergen Graf, who is a flaming, screamingly obvious antisemite. In his own writings, Mattogno is indeed very disciplined about avoiding antisemitic outbursts, but has occasionally slipped up - he called van Pelt a 'Yehudi' in one article, IIRC. Mattogno was dumb enough to write a short pamphlet on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a fw years back - he presented a very convoluted conspiracy theory about its fabrication and publicising. His brother Gian Pio Mattogno has published several overtly conspiracist antisemitic tracts.In general, there are deniers who can restrain themselves from antisemitic outbursts, but truly objective researchers would pay more attention to Nazi crimes against non-Jews, even if they were taking a skeptical-negationist line, and wouldn't simply fixate on the Holocaust. Mainstream research into Nazi crimes is conspicuously more diverse and integrates topics like the euthanasia program, reprisals/terror against non-Jewish civilians, the fate of POWs, and so on. Deniers, including Mattogno, talk about these crimes exceedingly little, despite the manifold interconnections between them and the Holocaust.
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