Saturday, May 10, 2008

Conspiraloons on Child Survivors of Auschwitz

Deniers are often so eager to create a Straw Man that they inadvertently expose their idiocy in the process. Here's a classic example. Deniers would like us to believe that, at Auschwitz, "According to the storyline, children, the sick, and the elderly were immediately 'gassed'". However, in the same article, they then reprint Soviet propaganda photographs showing Jewish children who were liberated at Auschwitz.

These Conspiraloon deniers therefore fabricate hoaxers who were both so impossibly clever that they could conceal their forgeries and machinations for over 60 years, and so improbably stupid that they would publish photographs of child survivors when they were in the process of creating a narrative in which the Nazis killed every child on arrival. In their desperation to create Straw Man history in which a genocide can only occur when there are no survivors, deniers thus prove that no such narrative was being constructed by the allies in 1945. The true narratives of the period were created by history itself, which is always complex and which rarely allows the schemes of tyrants to succeed without exceptions and ambiguities, necessitating that some survivors will indeed be left behind. In the case of Auschwitz, testimony shows that these exceptions came from the arbitrary power exercised by Mengele and other selectors, combined with the camp personnel's need for errand boys, sexual playthings, experimental subjects, and Kapo companions. Once again, in its ignorance of this history, we witness the unbearable stupidity of the Cesspit.

Note: Thanks again to KentFord9 of RODOH for help with source material.

10 comments:

Roberto Muehlenkamp said...

How do we know that the children shown on Auschwitz liberation photographs are Jewish? Could they not also be the children of non-Jewish Poles deported to Auschwitz after the crushing of the 1944 Warsaw Revolt, for instance?

Jonathan Harrison said...

Some of the Jews have been identified , e.g. Eva Mozes Kor and her sister Miriam.

Wahrheitseeker said...

Is it a strawman that children were immediately "gassed"?

Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, p.413:

"As a rule, the (Jewish) children were put to death in the gas chambers upon arrival."


The Auschwitz-Birkenau website:

"After the selections conducted on the railroad platform, or ramp, newly arrived persons classified by the SS physicians as unfit for labor were sent to the gas chambers: the ill, the elderly, pregnant women, children."
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/html/eng/historia_KL/liczba_narodowosc_ofiar_ok.html

Exceptions are always brought up, but that photos show children in Birkenau (not in family or transit camp), but the very heart of the extermination machine, is a point against the credibility of the story.

Jonathan Harrison said...

Even when it's made clear in the literature that Mengele kept those children alive for reasons of 'medical' experimentation?

Yes, it's a Straw Man to discuss the policy as if such exceptions were not openly acknowledged in the literature.

wahrheitseeker said...

Yes, exceptions are made for certain transports (said to have been spared from selections for "propaganda" reasons). They are even made for those victims of medical experiments.

But what about all of those who did undergo "selections" for the gas chamber, but weren't put into medical experimentation?

I cite Mr. Folman as exhibit A for such survivor.

Ms. Kubica would have it that such couldn't be the case if the transport underwent selections. In addition to her earlier comments, she writes on p.414:

"Beginning in July 1942, Jewish transports routinely went through selection upon arrival. The young, healthy, and able-bodied men and women were selected for labor. The remaining deportees, ABOVE ALL CHILDREN, mothers with SMALL CHILDREN, and pregnant women, were consigned to death in the gas chambers without any registration."

Since then 10 yr old Folman did experience these 'selections', and was not experimented upon, what is the explanation for his survival? More of your child prostitution gig?

Jonathan Harrison said...

As KentFord9 has already noted on RODOH:

"Helen Kubica (in Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp) explained that the "great majority" of Jewish children shipped to Auschwitz from Hungary "were gassed immediately upon arrival" (p. 416). However, starting in June 1944 many were stashed in Durchgangslager, a practice arising when entire trains were sent to such camps directly from the Birkenau ramp without a selection. Few survived the Durchgangslager; those who did were sent to such satellite camps as Trzebinia and Jawiszowice, which held several dozen boys."

So it is a downright lie for WS to state that "Mr. Folman as exhibit A for such survivor...Ms. Kubica would have it that such couldn't be the case if the transport underwent selections."

wahrheitseeker said...

Dr. Harrison seems unwilling to actually read material he chooses to talk about. Interestingly, he similarly accuses deniers of building strawmen by also failing to learn the story and its complexity.

Dr. Harrison writes that, "It is a downright lie for WS to state that "Mr. Folman as exhibit A for such survivor...Ms. Kubica would have it that such couldn't be the case if the transport underwent selections.""

He supports this accusation (deceptively) by quoting a second-hand comment/quote on Kubica (from another poster) in which she clearly refers to trains "without a selection."

As Dr. Harrison well knows, Mr. Folman claims to have "survived selektions" in Auschwitz, and so is not being referred to by Ms. Kubica. For those trains which did undergo selections, Kubica's statements have already been given above.

Jonathan Harrison said...

Where does Kubica state that all children who underwent selections were gassed? We have a quote above saying "great majority" but none saying "all". You choose to make a 2+2=5 inference for your own purposes.

In contrast, we have other sources, most notably Langbein, describing cases where children did survive selections.

wahrheitseeker said...

Dr. Harrison:

1) On p. 413, Kubica stated that the rule for Jewish children deported to Auschwitz was immediate selection leading to gassing upon arival. Its that clear.

The alleged exemptions from this rule (1-medical experiments, and 2-not undergoing selection but rather sent immediately to transit camp) have already been pointed out by yours truly. Your continued attempts to bring up statements of Kubica regarding the bypassing of "selections", unimportant to someone "selected" like Folman, is irrelevant.

2) What do the Hungarian deportees, from where you take the "great majority" gassed from, have to do with Folman, a Pole deported to Auschwitz from a Polish labor camp?

Jonathan Harrison said...

1) How do you know that he wasn't selected for medical experiments?

If there could be one exception to "the rule" then clearly there could be others, as people like Mengele were clearly being allowed to exercise discretionary and arbitrary authority at the selection point.

2) Hungarian deportations took place in the same timeframe as Folman's deportation: 1944.